Suarez

[Freddd]

Sorry you're wrong and showing a total lack of understanding of different cultures around the world. Its racist to me and you because we live in England. This is common place in South America. They use the colour of skin to talk to each other in a derogatory phrase. Black people and white are not offended by it.

I agree that many spanish speakers would call someone, for example, Chino simply as a description, whereas calling someone "Hey Chinaman" would be almost certainly understood as racist in English. Calling someone a chinese prick, however, incorporates the ethnic description and makes it part of the insult. That is either racist or so close to being racist as to make no real difference.

It's kind of like calling someone posh. On its own, it's a desctiption. Call someone a posh **** and you make the term posh part of the insult. "You posh ****" is classist abuse. "You black ****" isracist abuse, even if "you black person" wouldn't be

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Wow that's very white of you. You've obviously never been abused for the colour of your skin. If you want to call someone a **** call them a ****, why must it be black ****?
I just wonder how your arguement that it's acceptable to abuse people because of the colour of their skin in such & such a country so it should ok here too holds up during the World Cup where various groups have already said they intend to target non white players and fans?

And if clubs would be a lot more likely to "educate" their players if they run the risk of spending millions on a player only for that player to miss most of the season because they felt the need to abuse another human being over the colour of their skin. If these players want to play in the English league and be paid by English clubs they should abide by our morals and standards.

We're in ****ing fantasy land here Alfie. Your post is just laughable to be honest. You're getting moral with your "that's very white of you". You're moreorless accusing me of being racist by saying such things, that I find very offensive. I won't rise to it but I will correct your inaccuracies. At no point have I claimed that because it is acceptable in South America, it is acceptable here. Far from it, I've said the opposite. I said it is unacceptable in this country but that we're not doing enough to help integrate people into the country. That is my opinion.

I agree if players want to play football in this country, they should abide by our laws on racism and everything else. But I have no problem helping them to understand the differences before they get on the field of play. We should be helping promote racial harmony. Sanctioning players for a full season will achieve **** all except create sides and further the problem. Look at how Uruguay has reacted to our arrogance. I suppose you're now going to tell me that is a racist country? You know the one which has done more for longer than any other country in world football to promote opportunities for black players.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I agree that many spanish speakers would call someone, for example, Chino simply as a description, whereas calling someone "Hey Chinaman" would be almost certainly understood as racist in English. Calling someone a chinese prick, however, incorporates the ethnic description and makes it part of the insult. That is either racist or so close to being racist as to make no real difference.

It's kind of like calling someone posh. On its own, it's a desctiption. Call someone a posh **** and you make the term posh part of the insult. "You posh ****" is classist abuse. "You black ****" isracist abuse, even if "you black person" wouldn't be

Indeed Fredd but if you were on the field of play in Uruguay, and called someone a negrito **** head (my spanish isn't good enough to convert that bit), it would not be considered racist. It would be here but not there. Why is that so hard for English people to accept? Its just a difference in culture. Uruguay are very comfortable with their views on racism, and have very problems with racial harmony. Do I agree with what they say to each other? No but then the culture I've been brought up in is very different.

 

[SirBR]

So Suarez wearing a "Show Racism Out" or "Show Racism the Red Card" isn't enough to promote racial harmony or to raise the profile of racism to the players as well!!!!


He's played around europe long enough to know what he was doing, if he wasn't such an arse who is a blatant cheat I'd probably have given him the benfit of the doubt. for example say shearer said something of a similar nature, it would be taken as out of character and the charges/ suspensions may not have been as harsh.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

He's not in South America. Also, just because black and white people in South America aren't offended by it doesn't mean they won't be offended in England.

Again you are completely missing the point. I have already said he is playing football in our country and should abide by our laws. I have also said he should be banned. However I also feel we don't do enough to integrate footballers from different cultures into our own when they come here. The responsibility lies witht eh players themselves, the clubs and the FA. Surely the fact that Suarez was quite happy to reveal to the panel what he said, shows that he does not understand the law in this country. I'm saying in the interests of improving racial harmony, we should do more to educate them on the law and culture. You can't tell him how to live his life all over the world, only to abide by our laws when he is here.

 

[SirBR]

"Surely the fact that Suarez was quite happy to reveal to the panel what he said, shows that he does not understand the law in this country."

I personally think he used that as an excuse to try and get away with it. The FA promote "Kick it out" and "Show racism the red card" and he has been here long enough to surly be aware of these campains?

 

[Freddd]

Indeed Fredd but if you were on the field of play in Uruguay, and called someone a negrito **** head (my spanish isn't good enough to convert that bit), it would not be considered racist. It would be here but not there. Why is that so hard for English people to accept? Its just a difference in culture. Uruguay are very comfortable with their views on racism, and have very problems with racial harmony. Do I agree with what they say to each other? No but then the culture I've been brought up in is very different.

I have some difficulty believing that a Urugayan called a negrito gillipolla wouldn't regard the insult as having a racial component. The term "negrito" is superflous in the sentence unless it is intended to add a racial element to the insult.

I could of course be wrong, but I would be slow to accept the word of anyone other than a blak urugayan on the subject. Not having a pop - - both you and I are relying on second hand information on this point, and I am somewhat skeptical.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

In the last 15 years how many examples of someone deliberately breaking someones leg can you think of? The only one that comes to my mind is Roy Keane on Alf-Inge Haaland, so again your argument is invalid.
Also, the 'lack of understanding our culture' argument is just absolutely ridiculous, especially considering he was at Ajax for 3 years previous to joining Liverpool. There is absolutely no way he couldn't have known what he said was racist.

I can think of whole lot more than one! But again we're not only talking about breaking legs, we're talking about players deliberately trying to injure each other. It is common place. How many times have players been sent off for raising their hands? What would happen if you did that in the street?

I'm not saying because they are on the field of play its ok to call people a black so and so just because you're on the field of play. It clearly isn't. But it is also very unrealistic to expect human beings full of adrenalin not to make the odd bad call in terms of how they speak to someone. Particularly when said player is used to using such phrases at home where it is not considered racist.

Playing in holland is not relevant, I'm sure they have differences to our culture in terms of racism. I can't comment on how much Suarez knew about the law in this country, but given he has been very open with the panel about the phrases used alledgedly, it would suggest not very much or he would have lied and got away with it. Given they were the only ones party to the conversation, it would have been one word against another. To me Suarez has met the issue head on and highlighted a flaw in our integration of players.

 

[You'veBeenTiote'd]

Again you are completely missing the point. I have already said he is playing football in our country and should abide by our laws. I have also said he should be banned. However I also feel we don't do enough to integrate footballers from different cultures into our own when they come here. The responsibility lies witht eh players themselves, the clubs and the FA. Surely the fact that Suarez was quite happy to reveal to the panel what he said, shows that he does not understand the law in this country. I'm saying in the interests of improving racial harmony, we should do more to educate them on the law and culture. You can't tell him how to live his life all over the world, only to abide by our laws when he is here.

Alright i suppose i did miss the point then. If that is your point then i agree, he should be banned but much more should be done to ensure those from different cultures fully understand what is acceptable in England and what isn't.

 

[TomTom94]

To all the people saying Suarez is ignorant and therefore it is acceptable:

He has played in Europe for five years. He should be well aware of the connotations of racism in Europe by now.
His "ignorance" is a bullshit smokescreen designed as a last-gasp defence.

Also, whoever it was who said that injury is part of the job, racism is not - agreed entirely. This is the key thing that people need to understand.

 

[The mighty DeBOOSHy]

Again you are completely missing the point. I have already said he is playing football in our country and should abide by our laws. I have also said he should be banned. However I also feel we don't do enough to integrate footballers from different cultures into our own when they come here. The responsibility lies witht eh players themselves, the clubs and the FA. Surely the fact that Suarez was quite happy to reveal to the panel what he said, shows that he does not understand the law in this country. I'm saying in the interests of improving racial harmony, we should do more to educate them on the law and culture. You can't tell him how to live his life all over the world, only to abide by our laws when he is here.

So because he came up with some excuse about "not understanding" (I think you're being very naive if you believe that, given how long he's played in Europe) his punishment should be reduced? No way.

Ultimately Liverpool FC are going to suffer and it was (I agree with you) their responsibility to ensure he is culturally understanding enough not to be racist. So the ban is fair, surely you agree with that at least?

It doesn't mean that Suarez is necessarily "a racist" but hopefully he'll now understand what is acceptable in more culturally advanced areas of the world.

 

[The mighty DeBOOSHy]

Alright i suppose i did miss the point then. If that is your point then i agree, he should be banned but much more should be done to ensure those from different cultures fully understand what is acceptable in England and what isn't.

Which is the job of the company he works for and so therefore the ban is fair.

 

[Alfie]

We're in ****ing fantasy land here Alfie. Your post is just laughable to be honest. You're getting moral with your "that's very white of you". You're moreorless accusing me of being racist by saying such things, that I find very offensive. I won't rise to it but I will correct your inaccuracies. At no point have I claimed that because it is acceptable in South America, it is acceptable here. Far from it, I've said the opposite. I said it is unacceptable in this country but that we're not doing enough to help integrate people into the country. That is my opinion.

I agree if players want to play football in this country, they should abide by our laws on racism and everything else. But I have no problem helping them to understand the differences before they get on the field of play. We should be helping promote racial harmony. Sanctioning players for a full season will achieve **** all except create sides and further the problem. Look at how Uruguay has reacted to our arrogance. I suppose you're now going to tell me that is a racist country? You know the one which has done more for longer than any other country in world football to promote opportunities for black players.

I'm not calling you a racist at all but you haven't been abused about the colour of your skin so you have no idea what it means to be racially abused. Saying it's people being overly PC is offensive.

 

[You'veBeenTiote'd]

Which is the job of the company he works for and so therefore the ban is fair.

I'm not saying it isn't! I want it to be longer in all honesty (more because i hate Suarez than anything else). I'm blaming Liverpool more than anybody else, although having been in Europe for 5 years you'd expect Suarez to know what he said wouldn't go down well!

 

[The mighty DeBOOSHy]

I'm not saying it isn't! I want it to be longer in all honesty (more because i hate Suarez than anything else). I'm blaming Liverpool more than anybody else, although having been in Europe for 5 years you'd expect Suarez to know what he said wouldn't go down well!

Yeah I was just adding on to your comment I wasn't disagreeing with it.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I have some difficulty believing that a Urugayan called a negrito gillipolla wouldn't regard the insult as having a racial component. The term "negrito" is superflous in the sentence unless it is intended to add a racial element to the insult.

I could of course be wrong, but I would be slow to accept the word of anyone other than a blak urugayan on the subject. Not having a pop - - both you and I are relying on second hand information on this point, and I am somewhat skeptical.

I have many friends who have bee to South America Fredd, Brazil/Argentina admittedly not Uruguay. It is very very different. They were shocked and offended for a good while initially. The way they used the term for black there would be completely unacceptable and considered racist in this country. At first they thought "this country is shocking, the blacks are still being kept down, how far behind are they" But they slowly came to realise that they could not be further wide of the mark.

 

[You'veBeenTiote'd]

Yeah I was just adding on to your comment I wasn't disagreeing with it.

Oh Sorry i get a bit lost in these arguments!

 

[Dr. Lucien Sanchez]

I can think of whole lot more than one! But again we're not only talking about breaking legs, we're talking about players deliberately trying to injure each other. It is common place. How many times have players been sent off for raising their hands? What would happen if you did that in the street?

I'm not saying because they are on the field of play its ok to call people a black so and so just because you're on the field of play. It clearly isn't. But it is also very unrealistic to expect human beings full of adrenalin not to make the odd bad call in terms of how they speak to someone. Particularly when said player is used to using such phrases at home where it is not considered racist.

Playing in holland is not relevant, I'm sure they have differences to our culture in terms of racism. I can't comment on how much Suarez knew about the law in this country, but given he has been very open with the panel about the phrases used alledgedly, it would suggest not very much or he would have lied and got away with it. Given they were the only ones party to the conversation, it would have been one word against another. To me Suarez has met the issue head on and highlighted a flaw in our integration of players.

Can think of plenty but chose not to name them?

I have no idea how you can think him playing in Holland is irrelevant. I don't know what else to add, I'm baffled.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

I'm not calling you a racist at all but you haven't been abused about the colour of your skin so you have no idea what it means to be racially abused. Saying it's people being overly PC is offensive.

Sorry but if someone called me a white ****bag, I would not be offended at all. Indeed when I was in Tenerife some years ago, a group of black fellas selling watches took offence to me and my friends not wanting to buy their tat. A stream of phrases with the word "white" in front of them followed. We laughed it off and were not offended. However I fully understand why it is different for black people in this country than it is for white people, and why they find it offensive to be called a black so and so. I am saying that to react by dishing out a season long ban when there are genuine reasons why he would not have known his remarks to be racist in this country is ridiculously PC.

 

[Warmir Pouchov]

Can think of plenty but chose not to name them?

I have no idea how you can think him playing in Holland is irrelevant. I don't know what else to add, I'm baffled.

I have given you the reason it is not relevant. That is dutch culture and dutch law. That is different to english culture and english. As for examples of bad behaviour on a football field that would have been construed as assault or some other charge in the street, I'll give you 3 but we could be on all day delving further than that. Stephen Hunt deliberately kicked Petr Cech in the head and caused a fractured skull. I don't care what he claims, he tried to hurt Cech intentionally. Alan Shearer deliberately kicked Neil Lennon in the head because the bloke was a tit. Danny Guthrie deliberately kicked Craig ***an out of frustration and broke his leg as a result. If that had happened in the street, he'd have faced charges.