SMC groundsmen gone

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John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. said:
I wonder why their lawyer didn't pick on the fact that he had permission to work, which had never been rescinded, surely that was game set and match. In that case there was no need to lie?
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Was just about to ask the same
Obi is spot on about the importance of being in a Union (Brothers and Sisters...although I’ll admit to being a regional rep for my union so I’m biased) but as you say the fact that the lawyer, or whatever they were, didn’t pick up on exactly the same thing is bizarre
 
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Walter Sobchak said:
Please can you put a disclaimer/signature on your posts explaining your Ehab's mate? It would enable people to realise your impartiality regarding the owners and not add any weight to them.
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Please can you put a disclaimer/signature on your posts explaining your impartiality against the owners when replying to any posts you don't agree with ?
He is not 'my mate'.
 
dennisboothstash said:
Was just about to ask the same
Obi is spot on about the importance of being in a Union (Brothers and Sisters...although I’ll admit to being a regional rep for my union so I’m biased) but as you say the fact that the lawyer, or whatever they were, didn’t pick up on exactly the same thing is bizarre
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The new contracts that they accepted £1000 for signing, changed the t&cs
 
Obadiah said:
I have now read through the full judgment. It is clear from the evidence that the SMC, despite the procedural irregularities, unfairly sacked the two groundsmen and they should have been paid compensation.

Unfortunately for the groundsmen they lied in the investigation and they stuck to that story in the Tribunal despite the overwhelming evidence that Mr Cook worked for Hull FC on the day in question. Most of us have been in situations where our natural reaction to being accused of something is to deny it. As a result they came across as untrustworthy and dishonest in the Tribunal when they didn't really need to.

The SMC gave Mr Cook permission to work for Hull FC from the first day of his employment. A permission that was never rescinded. A good shop steward would have ensured he didn't lie during the investigation and would have pointed out he had permission to work for Hull FC.

A sad story which shows why employees should be a member of a trade union.

As to the SMC and the Allams. After being shown up on national television somebody had to pay. So Ehab called for an investigation and sacked the groundsmen.
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They didn't come across as untrustworthy, they were. They had to lie as they shouldn't have been doing the work for the scum at that time. Something they would have continued doing.
The most one sided case ever. As pointed out by the judge.
 
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The Omega Man said:
The new contracts that they accepted £1000 for signing, changed the t&cs
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I thought you said you'd read the judgment. Perhaps you should read it again. The payment was for any financial loss incurred as a result of the changes to the way lieu time was to be taken.
 
Chazz Rheinhold said:
They didn't come across as untrustworthy, they were. They had to lie as they shouldn't have been doing the work for the scum at that time. Something they would have continued doing.
The most one sided case ever. As pointed out by the judge.
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They didn't have to lie because Mr Cook was legally entitled to work for Hull FC at the time. It was so one-sided because he denied he was working for Hull FC in the investigation meeting.
 
dennisboothstash said:
Was just about to ask the same
Obi is spot on about the importance of being in a Union (Brothers and Sisters...although I’ll admit to being a regional rep for my union so I’m biased) but as you say the fact that the lawyer, or whatever they were, didn’t pick up on exactly the same thing is bizarre
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The Tribunal had already found they had been unfairly dismissed. The remaining question to be considered by the Tribunal was how much compensation they were due. If somebody said they were sacked for telling lies in a disciplinary process about something they were legally entitled to do how much compensation do you think they would have got? I think next to nothing. The damage was done in the investigation meeting when they first denied he was working for Hull FC in the investigation.
 
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Obadiah said:
I thought you said you'd read the judgment. Perhaps you should read it again. The payment was for any financial loss incurred as a result of the changes to the way lieu time was to be taken.
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I read it as they were given £1000 for signing the new contract and that the new system compensated them with time in lieu.
But take your point.
 
Obadiah said:
The Tribunal had already found they had been unfairly dismissed. The remaining question to be considered by the Tribunal was how much compensation they were due. If somebody said they were sacked for telling lies in a disciplinary process about something they were legally entitled to do how much compensation do you think they would have got? I think next to nothing. The damage was done in the investigation meeting when they first denied he was working for Hull FC in the investigation.
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Ok
Firmly comes back to how important it is to be in a Union then
 
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Obadiah said:
They didn't have to lie because Mr Cook was legally entitled to work for Hull FC at the time. It was so one-sided because he denied he was working for Hull FC in the investigation meeting.
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He could work for the scum Outside of his working hours for the smc. So he did have to lie as he was in. The wrong. He was moonlighting. It's not hard.
 
  1. The respondent concedes that the claimants were unfairly dismissed, because of admitted procedural unfairness in the appeal process. Accordingly the complaint of unfair dismissal succeeds.

  2. In relation to remedy both claimants seek an award of compensation for the unfair dismissal. For both claimants the tribunal makes no basic award, because it considers that it is just and equitable to reduce the basic award by 100% because of their conduct before the dismissal. It also considers there was a 100% chance the claimants would have been dismissed if a fair procedure had been followed on the dates they were dismissed (17 April 2017 for Mr Cook and 19 April 2017 for Mr Harrison). Accordingly no compensato award is made.

  3. Alternatively, if any compensatory award had been made both claimants were guilty of culpable and blamewo hy conduct such that a reduction of 100% would have been appropriate.

  4. The complaint of wrongful dismissal fails and is dismissed.

    Unfairly dismissed due to procedure unfairness. Wrongfully dismissed??? No. If the procedure was fair a 100% chance they would still have a been dismissed.
    That's not 50/50 could go either way bollocks. That's as clear as clear can be.
 
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Chazz Rheinhold said:
  1. The respondent concedes that the claimants were unfairly dismissed, because of admitted procedural unfairness in the appeal process. Accordingly the complaint of unfair dismissal succeeds.

  2. In relation to remedy both claimants seek an award of compensation for the unfair dismissal. For both claimants the tribunal makes no basic award, because it considers that it is just and equitable to reduce the basic award by 100% because of their conduct before the dismissal. It also considers there was a 100% chance the claimants would have been dismissed if a fair procedure had been followed on the dates they were dismissed (17 April 2017 for Mr Cook and 19 April 2017 for Mr Harrison). Accordingly no compensato award is made.

  3. Alternatively, if any compensatory award had been made both claimants were guilty of culpable and blamewo hy conduct such that a reduction of 100% would have been appropriate.

  4. The complaint of wrongful dismissal fails and is dismissed.

    Unfairly dismissed due to procedure unfairness. Wrongfully dismissed??? No. If the procedure was fair a 100% chance they would still have a been dismissed.
    That's not 50/50 could go either way bollocks. That's as clear as clear can be.
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ALLAMS OUT !!!
 
John Ex Aberdeen now E.R. said:
I wonder why their lawyer didn't pick on the fact that he had permission to work, which had never been rescinded, surely that was game set and match. In that case there was no need to lie?
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. Having considered all of the evidence and particularly the credibility of Mr Cook's evidence at this hearing I find that Mr Cook was carrying out Hull FC duties during his working time. He had been dishonest in his explanations to the employer at the time and in his evidence to me. Had this matter not come to light when it did, I have no doubt Mr Cook would have continued using his work time to serve another employer, being paid by Hull FC and Hull City for the same time to the detriment of Hull City and the Respondent. In effect he was stealing work time from his employer for his own purposes. This was in breach of the express prohibition of the 'other employment' term and the term requiring him to devote all his working time to his groundsman duties. The Respondent was entitled to conclude that not only were his actions serious express breaches of contract, but also a breach of the fundamental implied term of trust and confidence. That term is referred to in the dismissal letter, and was also relied upon as pa of Mr Allam's rationale at the

Appeal Hearing. Instead of 'coming clean' at the Appeal hearing Mr Cook continued to lie which left Mr Allam with no choice but to confirm the dismissal.
 
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