Should Koran be captain?

[look_back_in_amber]

Davies all day long for me, much prefer the captaincy to go to a centre half as he can always see the play in front of him, he needs to learn to give an Ash style bollocking to under performing team mates though

Koren just doesn't seem involved enough to be the captain, far too much of the game passes him by, and, for me, Meyler just isn't good enough to be considered a first team regular, even though Brucie obviously likes the lad, I can't see him getting too many starts once Thud and Livermore are settled.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

****ing hell PLT, is that all you reckon Ash did as a captain, talk to referees? If so you're watching a totally different game to me altogether.

 

[PLT]

****ing hell PLT, is that all you reckon Ash did as a captain, talk to referees? If so you're watching a totally different game to me altogether.

You're missing the point completely. Ash was a leader. Take the armband off him and he'd still have been a leader. The only significance of the armband is you can talk to referees.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

No I think you're missing the point PLT, we're talking about whether Koren is suitable as captain, and if not who is.

IMHO the first and essential thing that you need in your captain is leadership qualities, Koren, as far as I have seen, doesn't appear to have any, not his fault he's not a natural leader, or doesn't appear to be even though he captained his national team.

In the laws of the game the ability to speak to the ref may be the only significant difference to an armband wearer and a non armband wearer, but the reality is much different. In my opinion you need to choose someone in your team, who's going to be, barring injury, a first team regular with as close as possible to the leadership qualities of Ash, I would say Curtis Davies is a tad closer than Robert Koren.

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

You're not far off. Rishworth.

You never did say whether you was a Bransholmer or a Sutton Parker?

SP growing up. Did live on Norff for awhile mid 90's. borffwick

 

[PLT]

No I think you're missing the point PLT, we're talking about whether Koren is suitable as captain, and if not who is.

IMHO the first and essential thing that you need in your captain is leadership qualities, Koren, as far as I have seen, doesn't appear to have any, not his fault he's not a natural leader, or doesn't appear to be even though he captained his national team.

In the laws of the game the ability to speak to the ref may be the only significant difference to an armband wearer and a non armband wearer, but the reality is much different. In my opinion you need to choose someone in your team, who's going to be, barring injury, a first team regular with as close as possible to the leadership qualities of Ash, I would say Curtis Davies is a tad closer than Robert Koren.

I agree with all of that, and this is why you're missing the point.

I was arguing that this idea that a good captain should play at CB because 'he can see everything going on in front of him' is bullshit because he isn't there to make tactical decisions. He just needs to lead and motivate. I'm not saying Koren should be captain at all. I agree that Davies is the most appropriate leader in our team.

 

[Quill]

Look at all the captains in the Prem:

Arsenal - Thomas Vermaelen
Aston Villa - Ron Vlaar
Cardiff - Mark Hudson
Chelsea - John Terry
Crystal Palace - Miles Jedinak
Everton - Phil Jagielka
Fulham - Brede Hangeland
Hull City - Robert Koren
Liverpool - Steven Gerrard
Man City - Vincent Kompany
Man Utd - Nemanja Vidic
Newcastle - Fabricio Coloccini
Norwich - Russell Martin
Southampton - Adam Lallana
Stoke - Ryan Shawcross
Sunderland - John O'Shea
Swansea - Ashley Williams
Tottenham - Michael Dawson
West Brom - Chris Brunt
West Ham - Kevin Nolan

As you can see, 14 of those are defenders. It's the seemingly logical option to make a defender captain.

Teams like Liverpool and West Ham have Gerrard and Nolan as captains as they are true leaders.

 

[look_back_in_amber]

Agree with Macca, and the clubs that have, in the main, chosen a CH as their captain. For me the best position for a captain is either as one of the central defenders or a defensive midfielder, and I do agree that from either of these positions you can usually see all of the play going on in front of you, then you have to pair the position with the character of the player, eg. Jobbo was a great CH but would have made a ****e captain as he wasn't loud enough, Curtis Davies is a decent CH and, from what I've seen, has all of the other qualities required to make a decent captain.

Did I say captain enough times, captain?

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

Agree with Macca, and the clubs that have, in the main, chosen a CH as their captain. For me the best position for a captain is either as one of the central defenders or a defensive midfielder, and I do agree that from either of these positions you can usually see all of the play going on in front of you, then you have to pair the position with the character of the player, eg. Jobbo was a great CH but would have made a ****e captain as he wasn't loud enough, Curtis Davies is a decent CH and, from what I've seen, has all of the other qualities required to make a decent captain.

Did I say captain enough times, captain?

Ye you should mixed it up a bit. Head honcho, the big cheese, número uno etc

 

[tigerscanada]

I agree with all of that, and this is why you're missing the point.

I was arguing that this idea that a good captain should play at CB because 'he can see everything going on in front of him' is bullshit because he isn't there to make tactical decisions. He just needs to lead and motivate. I'm not saying Koren should be captain at all. I agree that Davies is the most appropriate leader in our team.

A player is out of position, not marking his designated man or not tracking back, as defined by the drilled-in tactics outlined by the coach or manager.
The captain recognizes this situation and rectifies it by talking, yelling or kicking the errant player in the balls. Is he not recognizing a tactical deficiency and by correcting it is he not making a tactical decision ? Or is this embedded in your definition of "leadership", which you seem to be denying as a function of a captain. I'm confused.

 

[PLT]

A player is out of position, not marking his designated man or not tracking back, as defined by the drilled-in tactics outlined by the coach or manager.
The captain recognizes this situation and rectifies it by talking, yelling or kicking the errant player in the balls. Is he not recognizing a tactical deficiency and by correcting it is he not making a tactical decision ? Or is this embedded in your definition of "leadership", which you seem to be denying as a function of a captain. I'm confused.

Any player will have a go at any other player if he is out of position or not fulfilling his basic role as a footballer in any other way. If the captain is doing something wrong, someone else will still have a go at him and if he's a good captain he'll take it and sort himself out. The captain isn't the boss or the tactician or any of that. He just needs to be someone they all respect and who sets a good example. Usually defenders are that sort of person. Your flashy winger types or greedy strikers are less likely to be that sort of character. That's why it usually goes to the grafting midfielders or the centre halves. It's 100% nothing to do with where a player plays on the pitch or how much he can 'see what's going on in front of him' that's one of the most annoying football cliches.

Apparently, Koren has a really good attitude to training. First one on the pitch, last one off etc and looks after himself well. SB has publicly stated before that this is why he's the captain. The young players all respect him. I expect they will all respect the likes of Davies and Huddlestone too now.