Sebastian Vettel

  • Please bear with us on the new site integration and fixing any known bugs over the coming days. If you can not log in please try resetting your password and check your spam box. If you have tried these steps and are still struggling email [email protected] with your username/registered email address
  • Log in now to remove adverts - no adverts at all to registered members!

Does Vettel Deserve His Titles?

  • Yes, he's done a great job

  • No, Adrian Newey's done a great job

Results are only viewable after voting.
Kyle?

Kyle?

Well-Known Member
May 17, 2011
15,002
144
63
34
South Wales
What are your opinions of F1's youngest double world champion? Do you feel he deserves his titles, do you think he has the potential to become a legend of the sport? Or do you think he's vastly overrated, and Adrian Newey deserves all the praise? All opinions welcome.

Personally, i feel he deserves his titles. Despite being plagued with mechanical issues, and some amateurish driving at times, he came through to seal a deserved 1st title. This year he's really earned it. He's the first driver since Senna to get 2 seasons with 10+ pole positions, which shows how blindingly fast he is. Even his traditional weak point, his racecraft, has improved as the season's gone on. Whilst he's not the finished article yet, there is little doubt he has what it takes to become a triple world champion at least.
 
Only time will tell how good he really is. Personally I would like to give a lot of the credit to Newey and others who made the car and the team to what they are, but that doesn't mean he doesn't deserves his win. I am sure he have fought all his life to be where he is today so well done on him and congratulations! But it doesn't really matter how good he have been during this and last season, he need more different team mates and a few more years of growing and showing before I can compare him with such giants as Senna and Schumacher. Alonso is closer to the really grates in my book but ask me again in 2-3 years :)
 
Cowboys From Hell said:
What are your opinions of F1's youngest double world champion? Do you feel he deserves his titles, do you think he has the potential to become a legend of the sport? Or do you think he's vastly overrated, and Adrian Newey deserves all the praise? All opinions welcome.
Personally, i feel he deserves his titles. Despite being plagued with mechanical issues, and some amateurish driving at times, he came through to seal a deserved 1st title. This year he's really earned it. He's the first driver since Senna to get 2 seasons with 10+ pole positions, which shows how blindingly fast he is. Even his traditional weak point, his racecraft, has improved as the season's gone on. Whilst he's not the finished article yet, there is little doubt he has what it takes to become a triple world champion at least.
Click to expand...


  • Of course he deserves his titles. He has not cheated as far as I am aware and there are no allegations of him cheating either. Most World Champions deserve their titles, and Vettel certainly qualifies!
  • In spite of being in the best car, he is mega-quick and showed today that he can race with the best.
  • His racecraft has been questionable at times but today he answered a lot of critics.
Not voted in the poll though because the answers are too distinct: he's done a great job AND benefited from Newey's car.
 
undoubtedly deserved, that pole lap was just, well, I think a few jaws hit the floor yesterday when that time came up, and his overtake on Alonso? if Hamilton had done those there would be 1000 threads on here by now, some probably claiming their sick cows had been cured as he made it. A worthy champion, yes he's been given the car, but he's also used it to great effect, he sticks it on pole and does his best to leave everyone behind him, he's made a couple of mistakes during the season, cost himself a few points, but who hasn't? and I guess it probably doesn't hurt having such a mediocre team-mate who isn't really capable of challenging him, especially now he has the confidence of a WDC.
 
Vettel last year, was at least to me not necessarily the best driver of the season. I felt that had the team put their backing behind Webber... he would have taken the title. RBR seemed to me, unwilling the give Webber the push he needed to walk away with the ultimate trophy. (forgive me if you disagree.)

That title though has transformed Vettel. He has matured and cemented himself as team leader. He has done over and above what Red Bull could have ever asked him to. We're all waiting for it to fall apart but there isn't a single chink in his armour this year. It reminds me of Mansell '92.

If anything could bring it all crashing down, it could be the lure of Ferrari. You know they have to be willing to throw a chunk of change his way.

I do think he might not find it so easy next year... If that's the case then we'll see his true character.
 
That car would make anyone look good. Vettel is obviously a good driver, but then you don't get to F1 unless you are. The Beeb team were quick to praise Vettel's move on Alonso after the restart, but was it that amazing? He got a run on Alonso out of the chicane, because the Ferrari clearly had no traction all race, went round the outside, and just went onto the grass a little bit. That FLEXIBLE FRONT WING probably provides enough downforce that Vettel had no worries at all about going onto the grass.

Paul di Resta beat him when they were team-mates. Vettel is not a legend in the making. At this latest GP both Alonso and Button made digs at the Red Bull car. SilverArrow pointed out Alonso's, and Button, during the quali press conference wondered why, when Red Bull were running so little wing, they were taking so much speed through Parabolica. Red Bull's movable aero device has won Vettel one championship already, and his second is soon to be wrapped up. I'm not impressed at all.
 
I would say its a little 50/50 ish. He is clearly one of the best drivers not just in F1 atm but of the generation, but there is no denying his 2010 car was dominant pace wise and his 2011 car is dominant pace and reliability wise, not just the best but dominant. And as Webber is incapable of challenging him he has practically zero compatition.

That said he has not made any critical mistakes this year unlike some (like Hamilton), I would say Alonso has driven just as welll as Vettel so far this year.

As has been mentioned Red-Bulls movable aero devices that other teams aren't allowed (even if we aren't supposed to say it) could be called a form of cheating and may leave ?s over them.

I see Vettel beating Schumachers record, which doesn't make for exciting seasons to come.

I think when two teams are more equally matched and so there are more (realistic) championship contenders then the champion has done more to earn it, ie. Hamilton beating the faster ferraris in 2008.
 
Sebastian has done a great job and deserves the two titles he has, but the real test comes when he doesn't have the fastest car over a season (Ferrari 2010) and when he gets a higher pedigree team mate. Do I think Button, Schumacher, Hamilton and Alonso would've won the championship in a Red Bull? Absolutely! The Red Bull is on rails, even with a skinny rear wing they still had more down force than the McLaren who was using a massive rear wing.
 
I can understand it being a good chunk of Red Bulls car, but hell you cant knock the kid doing the best he can with it and still doing overtakes when it's not even needed.

It's 50/50 but I say Seb makes the difference from being dominant, to joint 3rd when using it for this season.
 
Most likely yes, but I think in those seasons where Red Bull don't make a stand out car or Newey retires I think we'll barely hear his name. In my book a champion who can only win from the front row is only half way there. If he'd done it in 2005-2008 which were seasons where drivers were constantly battling for the championship and the pressure was on all season through I'd probably have more respect for him as a WDC.
 
You only have to compare him to his team-mate to see how much more he is getting out of Newey's car.

If it wasn't for Vettel the Red Bull would not look as dominant as it is.

He is definitely making the difference.
 
You can only be compared to your team mate and he is whipping him S&M style. Yes the car is good but he is getting the job done with it
 
He wasn't quite whipping him last year though before Red Bull introduced their off throttle blown diffuser, prior to that Webber was able to blow the diffuser better manually.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
He wasn't quite whipping him last year though before Red Bull introduced their off throttle blown diffuser, prior to that Webber was able to blow the diffuser better manually.
Click to expand...

But how many times did Webber get mechanical problems that year? Also take into consideration the new tyres that suit Seb more than anybody.

This year is payment for all the BS he endured last year having 3 wins taken from him with failures, Bahrain, Australia, Korea and that's not including Canada, Spain and Italy where more problems came up to slow him down further.
 
For the early part of the season which is where they didn't have the automated off throttle blown diffusor Vettel had only one retirement from mechanical failure, the other was from driving into his team mate. Over that period Webber had 4 poles and 2 wins, Vettel had 3 and 1 respectively. From Valencia onwards though it was a different story.
 
If it's all about the carwhgy is Webber so far back? People on here rate Webber but he is getting totally and utterly destroyed, not just beaten, more than .7 of a second faster than his Qualifying specialist team-mate, and you lot don't rate him? oooh he's not british therefore it's the car, what a complete load of absolute **** most of you talk, if it was Button, Hamilton or Di resta doing it he would've been deified by now. such double standards it's a joke.

And Vettel may not have retired Bobby, but we all know that the car was so sick he handed a few victories to Webber and Alons. Such selective editing of information.
 
Australia was the only race I can recall Vettel dropping back due to a sick car, please correct me if there were others. The point remains though he was hardly dominating his team mate early season, it was only after e device was fitted to the car that allowed him to benefit from something Webber could do naturally.
 
Bob Bobbinz said:
Australia was the only race I can recall Vettel dropping back due to a sick car, please correct me if there were others. The point remains though he was hardly dominating his team mate early season, it was only after e device was fitted to the car that allowed him to benefit from something Webber could do naturally.
Click to expand...

Major

Bahrain: Spark plug failure (1st to 4th)
Australia: Brake failure (1st to DNF)
Korea: Engine failure (1st to DNF)

Minor

Spain: Brake problems (Finished 3rd but was likely to get 2nd place, maybe 1st)
Canada: Gear box problems (likely podium)
Italy: Engine slowing down by random (likely podium)

Seb should of won the first 3 races before China, he had them under control.
 
So long as you do not cheat or have massive unreliability then you deserve where you finish in the WDC. In my opinion the Red Bull is a supreme car and head and shoulders ahead of it's competitors, however I do not think that diminishes Vettel's achievement because he still has to beat his team mate who ran him very close last year and despite Webber struggling with the new tyres and having a lot of mechanical problems Vettel has still been a league above him for most of the season. When you have a car as dominant as the RB7 the only thing you can aim to do is capitalise on it and dominate and Vettel has done that almost perfectly, yes he has made a few mistakes and things have seemed to of fallen into place for him this season but Vettel has still destroyed everyone in quali and controlled races in a very mature way and with him and Adrian Newey they have been pretty untouchable which is all you can really ask for.

That said I think if Alonso manages to keep 2nd in the WDC by the end of the season then that will of been a bigger achievement.
 
Thanks SilverArrow for clearing those up, I got Bahrain and Australia mixed up in my head with the spark plug failure being the other way around. Even including these updates though I still stand by my statement that his early season was far from dominant over Webber and he subsequent increase in results came about after Webbers driver skill advantage was effectively removed.

On a similar vein, had the Bahrain race been run this year and the results being consistent with most others from this season in where Vettel wins he could have possible equaled the record this weekend for the earliest a WDC has been decided in a season. Previously it was Schumacher in 2002 winning the title with 6 races to go. The following season the FIA changed the points system.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top Bottom
Back