Scottish Independence
- Thread starter Leo
- Start date
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One is always suspicious of someone who argues that everything they say is right and everyone else is wrong. Bit like PM's question time actually.
There is.
Let me enlarge upon it.
Remember Rudyard Kipling and IF
I will present a few ifs.
If the UK had PR elections.
If we had an elected second chamber.
If we had at least one major media outlet that could be trusted.
If we had devolved parliaments in all regions and Countries of the UK.
In other words IF we had a modern democratic Union with progressive laws and aspirations.
If we had all this I doubt we would be having this referrendum.
We don't therefore I will vote YES in the hope that Scotland can offer the difference and in time influence England and the rUK to change.
I would vote yes if I thought it was better for Scotland and the UK. I'm willing to be convinced on things like currency but when it comes to the oil industry there is nothing anybody in the public arena can add to make me change my opinion as it is based on the fact that I've been in the business for the past 29 years majority of that in Scotland and have day to day dealings with major operators along with regular interaction with legislature and professional bodies. We've not always been listened too as an industry the worst case being PRT which effectively killed the industry and started the decline earlier than it should have. There is no escaping the reality which will come out post referendum, unfortunately despite all our wishes that is that the UKCS is in serious decline and the best we can hope for is a temporary stabilization. The real energy future lies in unconventionals which can provide a new era of energy independence and are based in England, very worrying as the investment will all go to this rather than the mix that we promote as being optimal.... Bottom line is I strongly believe that independence would be bad for Scotland and bad for Britain. The great point brought up elsewhere was that the BOE would set fiscal policy based on English needs not UK needs even if Scotland did use the pound. As such the Scottish economy would be open to the same risks as the Greeks but without the backing of BOE or CEB as lender of last resort. This is just so crazy in terms of a "policy" and would very quickly lead to massive tensions between Scotland and England. I see the scenario as yes they'll get independence, yes they'll use the pound, yes they'll screw the economy, yes they'll get no fiscal support from England with a big "I told you so" from Westminster within 5 years and a final No you can't come back into a union unless, yes you cut spending to......... poverty in Scotland.
BP are saying that by 2016 they will be producing 100,000 barrels per day from the Clair Ridge using their new LOSAL technology.
Your comment would be interesting.
Also, 4-5-2 would mean that we'd have Gomes in midfield and no keeper, or vic has his numbers wrong, a bit like one of the sides of the Scottish Independence debate.
I love the way Surf argues. All the documents he produces are FACTS (including now it seems Twitter and Facebook) but if anybody else presents thier equivalent but contradictory facts they are just spouting Westminster / No agenda propaganda.
I know one thing; if the English actually liked the EU and this was a referendum in England about whether WE should leave the UK we would demand to know before it happened what the true consequences would be. The fact that we would be giving up our membership of the EU and would need to either have the EU give us a "pass" to bypass the application procedure or would have to apply to join independently and NOBODY has any idea of the outcome' would be sufficient to put most people off. We would not rely on the assurances of an English Alex Salmond (heaven forfend) that "don't worry it will be alright - we will sort it out after you have committed yourself".
Scots voting Yes either do not care about the economic question or are very naive. Hopefully most are canny enough not to be led down AS's yellow brick road.
I know one thing; if the English actually liked the EU and this was a referendum in England about whether WE should leave the UK we would demand to know before it happened what the true consequences would be. The fact that we would be giving up our membership of the EU and would need to either have the EU give us a "pass" to bypass the application procedure or would have to apply to join independently and NOBODY has any idea of the outcome' would be sufficient to put most people off. We would not rely on the assurances of an English Alex Salmond (heaven forfend) that "don't worry it will be alright - we will sort it out after you have committed yourself".
Scots voting Yes either do not care about the economic question or are very naive. Hopefully most are canny enough not to be led down AS's yellow brick road.
comment of the day!
BP Losal technology is not new, it's actually about 25 years old and we've seen the effect in laboratory experiments for decades, it's just this is the first commercial implementation. Of that 100,000bbl a day about 1000 may be as a result of the losal effect. BPs technical position is now that losal is the default form of secondary recovery ie all water injection on new fields will be losal unless asset managers can prove there is no benefit. Clair was discovered in 1977, the reservoir is very complex and a pain to develop. Take that as an analog 1977 to 2014 is quarter of a century, we haven't got any big fields up our sleeves to pull out of the bag, Quad and clair ridge will add around 250,000bbl a day when both are fully on stream in around 2018 but we'll have lost that and more from the decline in production on existing fields. The big surprise and bonus was Buzzard in the Moray firth which was the last big discovery. With tax incentives Mariner Bressay from Statoil is a big future contributor too but this relies on the heavy oil tax relief put in place by Westminster as does Bentley and the other heavy fallow fields. Tax take from Edinburgh will kill these projects.
If these are your reasons for backing independence then I applaud you and sincerely hope it works. Many people in eg. the north east of England would want to join you. If however you are basing your case on economics ie. we pay in more than we get back, or, we want full control of our own resources, then your case is no more valid than if London or Bavaria wanted to break away. Say rather `we are doing it regardless and will find a way to make it work'. Tell me something - If there were no oil would you want independence ?
Mmmmmmm, I like the idea of Gomes in midfield, but I have to admit that the argument over North Sea oil (especially Smurf) had lulled me into such a stupor that I did get my numbers wrong.......apologies to the tacticians amongst us.
I would vote for Independence even if I thought Scotland would initially be worse off. Oil is a cherry on the cake rather than the cake. The issue is primarily about democracy as far as I am concerned but I am presenting arguements and trying to adddress the fears or indeed hopes that others might have. Personally I am comfortably off and secure, my career in business is at it's tail end. I am concerned about my grandchildren and your grandchildren.
Whereas you are ...............what? Go back through this thread or the Spurs thread and show me any 'FACTS' that have been presented by those on the NO side. Show me!
Do you consider opinions are facts? Don't twist my words btw Facebook (never mentioned twitter) is a medium it does not have it's own opinions. It is a medium which is being used heavily in this referrendum to disenimate information, maily by the YES camp.
LOL I didn't realise how right wing the Watford board is, does that represent the club or is it just this board?
If your main concern is about democracy and there is a No vote, can we assume that you will accept that as a democratic view of the people and not start calling for another vote is the next year or two?
Be careful what you wish for, you may just get it.....and, due to the law of unforeseen consequences, it may not be what you envisage.