Scottish Independence

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aberdeenhornet said:
They are not legal tender now. I tried arguing the point and failed so looked it up and found indeed they are not legal tender hence needed to use credit card in London pub...
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May not be legal tender as you say, but I'm here to tell you that The Swan in Bushey, The West Herts Sports Club, Wetherspoons, Tescos and the Watford Junction Booking Office all accept them....

That says a little too much about my spending patterns methinks. :emoticon-0111-blush
 
Bolton's Boots said:
May not be legal tender as you say, but I'm here to tell you that The Swan in Bushey, The West Herts Sports Club, Wetherspoons, Tescos and the Watford Junction Booking Office all accept them....

That says a little too much about my spending patterns methinks. :emoticon-0111-blush
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Was the coach and horses in croxley that wouldn't accept from me. Ever since I top up with English notes at the airport or at that fine service station at Tebay if driving.....
 
oldfrenchhorn said:
Mr Rehn did go on further Leo to talk about Scotland joining the EU, and stated that the country would have to apply through the normal routes. He did not see a short cut for them and because of the monetary issues they would probably not be accepted. No doubt the Yes campaign will not report his considered opinion.
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That is interesting ofh - but I am sure Spurf can explain that Mr Rehn is actually a 16 year old schoolboy from London in disguise so we can ignore him

colognehornet said:
Leo - I'm very sorry that the debate became distracted in this way. However the theme of English attitudes to the EU and to Germany in particular are relevant here. Unfortunately the ideas which I have opposed here are ones which are very entrenched in English society - ideas about Germany which often appear to be in a kind of time warp. I dread an EU referendum for this reason. Many English people appear to look more towards America than to Europe but I do not believe this to be the case in Scotland, and this is where a major problem lies. If the Scots are genuinely more pro European than the English are then this would be enough to place a future common history in jeopardy. Europe would, ultimately , rather have Scotland as a full member than a half hearted England which does little other than complain from the sidelines.

If Scotland voted yes then they would still be within the UK, and still be using Sterling for at least the next 18 months. possibly through the next electoral term. During this period they would have enough time to negotiate continued membership from within (If the UK has not voted out in the meantime !). I do not see currency being a problem - think of how the problem of the inclusion of the East German Mark was done in Germany - where there is a will........and so on. I can actually see a future situation where Scotland is a member and England is outside futilely chasing after it's lost colonial partners.
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Don't apologise - I am not really one who normally tries to keep threads on topic - the avenues we travel up are often better than the original thread. I personally think the English are very xenophobic - we hate just about everybody - but to balance it most now also are not too keen on us - whereas the Scots like everyone EXCEPT the English. I worked for a Scot who went to the World Cup in Japan to attend the matches England were in to support the opposition :)

You are of course correct to say Scotland will remain part of the EU until independence begins - probably in 18 months time. However I am not at all sure that Scotland will gain admission by then - if ever. I too fear rUK will pander to public xenophobic, anti-immigration sentiment and vote us out of the EU if given the chance - and you like Democracy !!!! The integration of Germany and currency issues were totally different - there both parties were keen to make it work. I think the Scots do not realise that the English they dislike - depite all pretence to the contrary - may view Scotland quite differently when they choose to break the Union - I think there will be a mood of "good luck to them, let's see how they get on on their own - but we are not going to help them". A bit like a marriage where one party gets out and the other feels deserted - and bitter.

Sorry Spurf was all this in the NO manifesto or am I just being political :)
 
I think part of the problem with the English attitude to other countries is it starts as humour but can get more insidious. I don't for a minute believe we are the only ones but I suppose it is always a case of where you draw the line.

We could move this to a new thread to stop going off topic but if Dan and Hornette were greeted by a thread entitled "why do the English hate everyone" they might both both go into meltdown!
 
Dan Starkey said:
I think part of the problem with the English attitude to other countries is it starts as humour but can get more insidious. I don't for a minute believe we are the only ones but I suppose it is always a case of where you draw the line.

We could move this to a new thread to stop going off topic but if Dan and Hornette were greeted by a thread entitled "why do the English hate everyone" they might both both go into meltdown!
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:)
 
Leonardo said:
That is interesting ofh - but I am sure Spurf can explain that Mr Rehn is actually a 16 year old schoolboy from London in disguise so we can ignore him



Don't apologise - I am not really one who normally tries to keep threads on topic - the avenues we travel up are often better than the original thread. I personally think the English are very xenophobic - we hate just about everybody - but to balance it most now also are not too keen on us - whereas the Scots like everyone EXCEPT the English. I worked for a Scot who went to the World Cup in Japan to attend the matches England were in to support the opposition :)

You are of course correct to say Scotland will remain part of the EU until independence begins - probably in 18 months time. However I am not at all sure that Scotland will gain admission by then - if ever. I too fear rUK will pander to public xenophobic, anti-immigration sentiment and vote us out of the EU if given the chance - and you like Democracy !!!! The integration of Germany and currency issues were totally different - there both parties were keen to make it work. I think the Scots do not realise that the English they dislike - depite all pretence to the contrary - may view Scotland quite differently when they choose to break the Union - I think there will be a mood of "good luck to them, let's see how they get on on their own - but we are not going to help them". A bit like a marriage where one party gets out and the other feels deserted - and bitter.

Sorry Spurf was all this in the NO manifesto or am I just being political :)
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There is always the chance that the English would be a bit miffed if the Scots voted yes - like a man left standing alone at the alter. However if this did happen then both countries would have an interest in making the interim period work as smoothly as possible for both parties. I do not really understand the currency issue that well but why would it not be possible for the Scottish and English pounds to be pegged at 1 to 1 even after Scottish separation ? When I first visited Luxemburg I was amazed that a cash machine paid me my money in Belgian Francs - the same could have happened in reverse in Belgium. The two countries had a fixed 1 to 1 ratio although the tax systems were very different, and anyone who knows these two countries knows that there has always been a large difference in prices and living standards between them - yet it worked. Belgian and Luxembourg Francs were accepted everywhere in both countries long before the Euro arrived on the scene. Why is this not possible after Scottish separation ?
 
Dan Starkey said:
I think part of the problem with the English attitude to other countries is it starts as humour but can get more insidious. I don't for a minute believe we are the only ones but I suppose it is always a case of where you draw the line.

We could move this to a new thread to stop going off topic but if Dan and Hornette were greeted by a thread entitled "why do the English hate everyone" they might both both go into meltdown!
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Because they think the Jamaicans are better in bed. The Americans now have our Empire. The Chinese get better marks at school. The Indians are no longer our servants. The French and Italians are better at getting off with our women and the Germans are better at football !
 
I always remember Terry Wogan's comment on the subject of Anglo-Irish relations..."The Irish hate the English because they don't care that they hate them..." Personally I take people as I find them and you will find good and bad in all...but there is only one group of people that I just cannot warm to...Scousers!
 
[video=youtube;csY43qV4JdA]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csY43qV4JdA&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
[video=youtube;syl9dy2AXmM]https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=syl9dy2AXmM[/video]
 
[video=youtube;Ajd4R-9BEIw]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ajd4R-9BEIw&feature=player_detailpage[/video]
 
Spurf - what is the point of posting 45 minutes of videos of people who support your cause - do you seriously expect anyone to a) watch them b) be impressed by them c) think they are remotely impartial or d) think they are true and accurate.

Debate is about arguing a case and thinking for yourself and trying to show people the logic of what you believe - not finding someone who just parrots your cause.

If anyone could be bothered they could I am sure find 50 minutes of video showing the other side.
 
Leonardo said:
Spurf - what is the point of posting 45 minutes of videos of people who support your cause - do you seriously expect anyone to a) watch them b) be impressed by them c) think they are remotely impartial or d) think they are true and accurate.

Debate is about arguing a case and thinking for yourself and trying to show people the logic of what you believe - not finding someone who just parrots your cause.

If anyone could be bothered they could I am sure find 50 minutes of video showing the other side.
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THe point Leonardo is that the YES side is barely represented in the media. The NO arguments are all over the media. I am posting these to show those who are interested in a balanced view the YES side of the Argument.

I am interested in spreading the word, as it were. <ok>

Plus I don't have time to give proper attention to debate with your self atm. <ok>
 
Spurf said:
THe point Leonardo is that the YES side is barely represented in the media. The NO arguments are all over the media. I am posting these to show those who are interested in a balanced view the YES side of the Argument.

I am interested in spreading the word, as it were. <ok>

Plus I don't have time to give proper attention to debate with your self atm. <ok>
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Just out of interest how many regulars on the Watford forum do you think have the vote? Of those who have, how many minds do you think you are going to change?

Please don't get me wrong - you're very welcome on here and I'm really enjoying the passion you and othrs are bringing to this thread - but it's not really spreading the word is it?
 
We disagree on the coverage of the two camps - everything I see seems to favour the Yes vote but what do I know? Nothing it seems as I am a politician who simply recites the No mantra. If you were genuinely interested in spreading the word Spurf you would do so in a succinct format that people would read - not with 45 minutes of dogma and propaganda/
 
I haven't really been following this debate but the other day I looked at stuff on the BBC site and the impression I got was that people are coming to terms with independence happening, and if it doesn't happen this time it will soon because of all the concessions promised by the Tories if the No vote manages to win.

I only say this because that doesn't seem like anti-Yes bias. Maybe it is. Maybe I miss the subtleties. One thing I do know is that people who are passionate about something, or closely connected to it, always see bias against or poor reporting of their case.
 
NZHorn said:
I haven't really been following this debate but the other day I looked at stuff on the BBC site and the impression I got was that people are coming to terms with independence happening, and if it doesn't happen this time it will soon because of all the concessions promised by the Tories if the No vote manages to win.

I only say this because that doesn't seem like anti-Yes bias. Maybe it is. Maybe I miss the subtleties. One thing I do know is that people who are passionate about something, or closely connected to it, always see bias against or poor reporting of their case.
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I agree with that NZ - so long as Yes campaigners believe the bias is against them and the NO campaigners likewise then the probability is the media has it about right.
 
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