Scottish Independence

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On a personal note, I watched Brazil beat England in a Kilmarnock pub in 2002 with Brazil cheered to the rafters by everyone there including my then Scottish girlfriend.

There seemed very little love of the English then, and I doubt anything has changed! (quite why my Nationalist gf was with an English bloke I can't imagine, unless it was my devastating good looks and millions in the bank :p )

Let them vote yes, the we can rebuild Hadrian's Wall, including filling in all the gaps, and sowing the surrounding land with mines!

But we are keeping the oil <laugh>

Rely on me to keep it trivial <ok>
 
QuarterMoonII said:
I note that most of the famous Jocks advocating Independence are doing so from foreign climes where they do not have a vote and do not have to live with the catastrophic consequences.

There is absolutely no doubt in my mind whatsoever that if Alex Salmond had been able to frame this referendum as he liked, there would have been three options on the ballot: 1 – Independence; 2 – In Statu Quo; 3 – “Devo Max”. Everybody knows there would have been a landslide for the latter as they would keep the Pound, not become a bit-part player in the World and have more control in Edinburgh for his socialist agenda.

There are two ways that I could look at it:

I know a few Jocks and they are all good people and I have been to various places in Scotland over the years and the welcome has always been very hospitable, so I hope that they vote “NO” and choose to stay with us, even though there are a string of reasons, of which we English are constantly reminded (such as the Barnett Agreement and the Jock MPs voting on laws that do not affect them North of the Border), why we should get rid of them.

If the Jocks vote “YES”, then Marxist ‘Wallace’ Miliband and his loony left Labour Party are dead men walking because without their Jock MPs, they have no chance of forming a government ever; and the LibDems would go back to being irrelevant without their Jock MPs. Down side is that leaves us with Call Me Dave...

Dex, are the Freedom Fries supersized?
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Absolument!...complete with a deep fried Mars Bar...fusion food.

Don't be tendering any samples after a half marathon though...or snickers....
 
Like Stick, I would not dream of supporting any team playing a UK team. I would support all of them and Eire, as I have done. I would find it pathetic to do otherwise. I find the way some Scots behave as pathetic.
Despite my angry note earlier I actually hope it's a NO vote, but if then concessions are given to the Scots then I would be angry. Scotland gets a great deal already, but I can put up with that.
It is crazy to dissolve the Union, not that England would be weaker, they probably would be much stronger. Great Britain is one of the few natural countries in the World. We should keep it that way.
 
The reference to supporting other teams who are playing England (or any permutation where one supports anyone against the team one "hates") actually stretches down from international to intra-national competitions. At club level I am keen for any British team to prosper in Europe, it is surely a positive for British football. Yet there are always enough people willing Widzew Lodz or Metallist Karkiv to beat Manchester United because they loathe that particular club. Suffice to say: allegiancies within football are generally polarised and not the greatest indicator.

Rivalries within a country are actually just as intense as cross-border rivalries. Looking at England, the "shandy-drinking southern ****ters" likely feel the same animosity to "dirty northern bastards" as they do to "sweaties". Here in Germany there is an equally fierce North/South divide from the olden times of Prussia v Bavaria.

I think regional (and indeed national) identities are extremely important and part of our heritage. I fervently hope they remain part of our future too. The secret lies in acceptance and tolerance, rather than some sort of global idealogical federalism where we all look, speak, act and think the same.

Cyc - if I went to Australia and didn't get called a whinging Pom I would be most distressed. Got to have some friendly banter ;)
 
Bustino74 said:
Like Stick, I would not dream of supporting any team playing a UK team. I would support all of them and Eire, as I have done. I would find it pathetic to do otherwise. I find the way some Scots behave as pathetic.
Despite my angry note earlier I actually hope it's a NO vote, but if then concessions are given to the Scots then I would be angry. Scotland gets a great deal already, but I can put up with that.
It is crazy to dissolve the Union, not that England would be weaker, they probably would be much stronger. Great Britain is one of the few natural countries in the World. We should keep it that way.
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Must admit, as a less than astute gambler, that having seen England's results leading up to the WC I had a small wager on them 'achieving' no points in their qualifying group. Too bad; another punt down the tubes!!

Anyway, the WC was brilliant with Germany stuffing Brazil then Mario Gotze (from FCB) scoring a fabulous winner in the final against Argentina! Have just stopped celebrating in order to visit Koln for more fun (Kolsch).

Please; no more insults either way.
 
This team and nation support thing is a real can of worms. As a Queenslander, we want to win everything in Australia. We don't like New South Wales, we want them to lose everything, not just against us, but against every other state an territory in the nation. If NSW play Victoria, we support the latter. If any of the less populated states play either of these two major states, we want the lesser lights to give them a flogging. In the end though, it's Australia to beat all other countries. New Zealand are like our cousins from across the ditch. We want to nail them whenever we can, but will support them when we're not involved. One of the highlights of the recent bike battles in the Comm games, was for me, the final of the sprint. England's Jason Kenny, a three time Olympic champion, up against the New Zealander Sam Webster, who qualified eleventh. One heat each saw them race a final time for the gold. I found myself almost yelling at the tube as the Kiwi blasted away with a lap to go. The last 200m were a test of sheer will power. And try as he might, Kenny couldn't quite pick up the heroic Webster as they threw to the line. It was a balls to the wall display by the New Zealander, and I was stoked to be able to cheer him home. He might not be Australian, but he's our little ANZAC cousin, one of the few we'd happily have protecting our backs in a trench. (No Oddy, that has nothing to do with sex.) <nahnah>
 
I'm a Londoner, played junior cricket for my county but have been a Yorkshire supporter since I was 10.
Greatest footballer ever was Jim Baxter.
Can't stand partisanship.
 
cyclonic111 said:
This team and nation support thing is a real can of worms. As a Queenslander, we want to win everything in Australia. We don't like New South Wales, we want them to lose everything, not just against us, but against every other state an territory in the nation. If NSW play Victoria, we support the latter. If any of the less populated states play either of these two major states, we want the lesser lights to give them a flogging. In the end though, it's Australia to beat all other countries. New Zealand are like our cousins from across the ditch. We want to nail them whenever we can, but will support them when we're not involved. One of the highlights of the recent bike battles in the Comm games, was for me, the final of the sprint. England's Jason Kenny, a three time Olympic champion, up against the New Zealander Sam Webster, who qualified eleventh. One heat each saw them race a final time for the gold. I found myself almost yelling at the tube as the Kiwi blasted away with a lap to go. The last 200m were a test of sheer will power. And try as he might, Kenny couldn't quite pick up the heroic Webster as they threw to the line. It was a balls to the wall display by the New Zealander, and I was stoked to be able to cheer him home. He might not be Australian, but he's our little ANZAC cousin, one of the few we'd happily have protecting our backs in a trench. (No Oddy, that has nothing to do with sex.) <nahnah>
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I must say i am most surprised at this Cyc. I thought the 2 countries would hate each other in a sporting sense. I would have thought it was similar to Brits supporting the French at sport. I.E never going to happen.
 
hawkeye said:
I must say i am most surprised at this Cyc. I thought the 2 countries would hate each other in a sporting sense. I would have thought it was similar to Brits supporting the French at sport. I.E never going to happen.
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I think it probably stems from being alone in our part of the globe. We've been strong allies forever. We've fought in wars under the ANZAC alliance since WW1. I suppose in some ways it's a bit like the UK countries liking to beat the hell out of each other in sport, but cheering on each other if they have to play the French, Germans, Italians, Dutch etc.
 
I take it you all saw the picture where someone forgot to take into account the train doors?

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An instant classic!
 
cyclonic111 said:
I think it probably stems from being alone in our part of the globe. We've been strong allies forever. We've fought in wars under the ANZAC alliance since WW1. I suppose in some ways it's a bit like the UK countries liking to beat the hell out of each other in sport, but cheering on each other if they have to play the French, Germans, Italians, Dutch etc.
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Cyc, you have it slightly wrong there. The Scots are bitter foes in sport, and they do not, repeat do not, cheer for the English against the Germans. Quite the opposite in fact. The Scots love the 'Erics' (courtesy OddDog), and the Erics love the Scots. I can vouch for the latter as I live the land of the wild Huns. I suspect that many Germans think the English are slightly nuts (nothing to do with me, honest, I try hard).

Whatever happens in September let it happen, we'll all manage somehow. Scotch will still be available even if it has to be smuggled over Hadrian's Wall. Haggis and bagpipes can remain at point of origin.

Oh, an afterthought. I am very interested in seeing what the Shetland Islanders (pop. 23,000+ in 2011 census, but probably a lot more now?) decide to do. Have former colleagues who worked up there and they always told me that Shetlanders absolutely insist that they are not Scottish, they are Shetlanders. Is this true?
 
SwanHills said:
Cyc, you have it slightly wrong there. The Scots are bitter foes in sport, and they do not, repeat do not, cheer for the English against the Germans. Quite the opposite in fact. The Scots love the 'Erics' (courtesy OddDog), and the Erics love the Scots. I can vouch for the latter as I live the land of the wild Huns. I suspect that many Germans think the English are slightly nuts (nothing to do with me, honest, I try hard).

Whatever happens in September let it happen, we'll all manage somehow. Scotch will still be available even if it has to be smuggled over Hadrian's Wall. Haggis and bagpipes can remain at point of origin.

Oh, an afterthought. I am very interested in seeing what the Shetland Islanders (pop. 23,000+ in 2011 census, but probably a lot more now?) decide to do. Have former colleagues who worked up there and they always told me that Shetlanders absolutely insist that they are not Scottish, they are Shetlanders. Is this true?
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Did they not put Edward Woodward in a big wicker basket and torch him?....
 
cyclonic111 said:
I think it probably stems from being alone in our part of the globe. We've been strong allies forever. We've fought in wars under the ANZAC alliance since WW1. I suppose in some ways it's a bit like the UK countries liking to beat the hell out of each other in sport, but cheering on each other if they have to play the French, Germans, Italians, Dutch etc.
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Hmmn. I used to work with a large group of Kiwis back in the day, and I can't imagine any of them ever cheering on the aussies at anything. So maybe this only works one way, in that it's usually the smaller country that carries a resentment against their larger neighbour?
 
Not all Aussies think like you Cyc. On my only visit down under a local was keen to explain the difference between Kiwis and Aussies. He carefully explained the different accents (fush and feesh and all that) but concluded by pointing out that all kiwi ladies are easily identified because they are all complete sluts <laugh>. I would point out that I was in Western Australia at the time and I understand that they are viewed as a breed apart.
 
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