Scotland

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You've missed the point on a number of fronts Bob. Firstly, I think tlf's question was based on legality - all the countries you've mentioned are in the EU and as such they don't operate border controls in the truest sense between each other. If Scotland votes yes then it won't be in the UK and it won't be in the EU either so technically he's right - they should have border controls and visas etc. but whether that happens pending an application to the EU is anyone's guess.

Nothing to do with my mentality - small or otherwise.

Secondly, are you seriously suggesting that you have relatives who will look to move to this new foreign country because of its disassociation with the rest of us? Really? Devolution has brought good and bad for sure but the two principle areas that Cardiff are in charge of - the NHS and Education they've royally ****ed up. Longer waiting times and poorer standards are a fact. It's all very well having a new country but it's having the people with the intelligent and experience to run it too.
 
Given that Scots living outside of England don't get to vote will they have no nation if Scotland votes yes? Will they have to retrospectively apply for visas? So many questions all of which the SNP can't seem to answer
 
moving to Scotland if they vote yes <laugh> there will be plenty of room for them as the sensible jocks will be moving south to take their place..<ok>
 
What has Scotland got to offer the EU to be able not to join but considered to join....you cant just say you are going to join you have to persuade the other countries who are members that you have something to offer and pay your way. the uk pays £53m every day to be in the EU so i am expecting that to drop if Scotland vote yes...Scotland got no chance of joining as there are countries ahead of them that cant join ...
 
Dragonborn said:
You're right tlf - border controls, visas and permits should be imposed because they won't be one thing nor the other. Having said that there would be a lot of costs involved in doing all that which would be wasted if, as I suspect, they will eventually be allowed into the EU. That said some in Europe have already questioned whether it's a fait accompli - looks like the beurocrats only want poor nations these days on order to expand Europe's eastern borders.
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dragon I can go to most places in the world without having to have a visa, the only two I have had or will have are China and Vietnam. Australia and New Zealand citizens don't need work permits etc to work in either country
 
Think Oz and NZ citizens need visas for the UK and Europe musty? I needed a tourist visa last time I went to Thailand and I need one every time i go to Egypt. The only open borders that I'm aware of are between EU countries. The point is that in the event of a Yes vote Scotland won't be part of the UK nor will it be part of the EU. Temporarily at least, one wonders what the arrangements will be.
 
At what point will their UK / EU passports be revoked. There are no Scotland consulates to assist those overseas and there would have to be some window (30 days or whatever) to permit those outside the country to obtain necessary replacement documentation .... if we're feeling that generous that is. Of course, just because Scotland exits the union doesn't mean that "Scots" are no longer UK citizens if they were born as such, revoking that status would require an act of Parliament .... wouldn't it?
 
Dragonborn said:
Think Oz and NZ citizens need visas for the UK and Europe musty? I needed a tourist visa last time I went to Thailand and I need one every time i go to Egypt. The only open borders that I'm aware of are between EU countries. The point is that in the event of a Yes vote Scotland won't be part of the UK nor will it be part of the EU. Temporarily at least, one wonders what the arrangements will be.
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no we don't for most European countries,

Australian citizens do not need a Schengen visa but may enter the Schengen area which consists of 25 European countries visa waived for a period of up to 90 days in every 6 months period. The Schengen zone covers Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (to include Andorra and Monaco), Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy (to include San Marino and Vatican City), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain (to include Andorra), Sweden, and Switzerland (to include Liechtenstein). The countries listed in parentheses may be visited too although they are no official Schengen zone members.
The United Kingdom does not adhere to the Schengen agreement, the country may be visited visa exempted for up to 180 days; the other European non-Schengen countries grant visa free entry for 90 days except Belarus and Russia which require to have a visa to be obtained from their consulates before enter. Turkey offeres a visa issue on arrival which is valid for 3 months and costs &#8364;15 or US$20.
 
scotland is a divided country even now, the two sides, this is a disaster for scotland whatever happens, and salmond is a dirty big ****, expect some sort of riots over the weekend, i will refuse to acknowledge the saltire for a long while if yes wins

british and proud
 
monks hero's said:
What has Scotland got to offer the EU to be able not to join but considered to join....you cant just say you are going to join you have to persuade the other countries who are members that you have something to offer and pay your way. the uk pays £53m every day to be in the EU so i am expecting that to drop if Scotland vote yes...Scotland got no chance of joining as there are countries ahead of them that cant join ...
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That's not true at all. Many countries that have nothing at all to offer join the EU. Many countries get far more back than they contribute. There is only one reason that Scotland couldn't join the EU, and that's if countries like Spain object. They are well qualified in all respects otherwise. In reality I think they would be considered an existing member but just have some re-negotiations.

If you think Scotland would need to re-apply, the surely the rest of the UK would need to re-apply as well. After all, they joined as UK not as UK minus Scotland. So it's the same argument. Scotland is already in the EU. I don't see how they can be booted out. I know what the EU have said, but it's all talk. They would look really stupid if they booted Scotland out and refused them re-entry. They want to look the like EU is one happy place, so it just wouldn't happen. It's complete nonsense.
 
Dragonborn said:
Think Oz and NZ citizens need visas for the UK and Europe musty? I needed a tourist visa last time I went to Thailand and I need one every time i go to Egypt. The only open borders that I'm aware of are between EU countries. The point is that in the event of a Yes vote Scotland won't be part of the UK nor will it be part of the EU. Temporarily at least, one wonders what the arrangements will be.
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If you're a UK citizen you don't need a tourist visa for Thailand if you're staying 30 days or less. They have visa-free entry for most people. UK citizens get a 30 day stamp on arrival.

But all countries have visas for people from certain countries, so of course Scotland would need a visa system. It would be a country, so would have all the things that a state usually needs. Whether it has border controls depends what agreement it comes to. Ireland didn't join Schengen specifically because it preferred to have free travel with UK, and that is probably what Scotland would opt for. If they had same visa criteria as UK then they'd work just like Schengen works for other countries. UK, Ireland, Scotland would be like a mini-Schengen. If Scotland vote yes that is almost certainly how it would work in practice. But if Scotland joined Schengen there would most certainly be border controls. Even with border control, UK and Scotland people would be allowed to travel freely back and forth, probably without using passports. This already happens in many countries. If you live in one country and work in another and commute daily you're usually given a border pass and don't have to use a passport. Many are making too much out of border controls. Just look at the rest of the world. Just look at UK/Ireland. It's a nonsense to suggest that UK citizens would need a visa to visit Scotland or vice versa. That just won't happen.

But I think they will vote no, so won't happen anyway.
 
mustyfrog said:
no we don't for most European countries,

Australian citizens do not need a Schengen visa but may enter the Schengen area which consists of 25 European countries visa waived for a period of up to 90 days in every 6 months period. The Schengen zone covers Austria, Belgium, Czech Republic, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, France (to include Andorra and Monaco), Germany, Greece, Hungary, Iceland, Italy (to include San Marino and Vatican City), Latvia, Lithuania, Luxembourg, Malta, the Netherlands, Norway, Poland, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, Spain (to include Andorra), Sweden, and Switzerland (to include Liechtenstein). The countries listed in parentheses may be visited too although they are no official Schengen zone members.
The United Kingdom does not adhere to the Schengen agreement, the country may be visited visa exempted for up to 180 days; the other European non-Schengen countries grant visa free entry for 90 days except Belarus and Russia which require to have a visa to be obtained from their consulates before enter. Turkey offeres a visa issue on arrival which is valid for 3 months and costs &#8364;15 or US$20.
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This is what's wrong with the debate Musty. Many have no idea what they're talking about. They just assume everyone needs a visa when in fact they don't. UK citizens can visit most of the world without a visa, so anyone who thinks we'll need a visa to visit Scotland needs to get out more and learn about how the world operates. Far too much nonsense being spoken, especially from the 'no' side who like to use scare tactics instead of facts. I don't care either way if they vote yes or no, but I think the no campaign has been very negative. It tries to scare people instead of pointing out the benefits of staying together.

Regarding the other point of many questions not being answered, that's true. But many question don't have an answer because it depends on the negotiations that take place. But we all know what will happen. Many countries have split up and they have sorted everything out. So just take a look at them. You don't need every single question answered to be able to decide between yes and no. If you need everything answered, then how do you manage to get out of bed in the morning, because you never know what's going to happen even today.
 
agree there Plastic, there are in fact less countries in the world we need a visa for than there are that we do. I strolled into Hong Kong and got a straight up 30 day stamp on my passport. Indonesia, New Zealand, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Fiji, Macou didn't even stamp my passport. I can apply for a UK passport if I wanted to travel to Europe (soon I hope). My passport atm says I have been to Hong Kong and China and bugger all else. I will see what happens when I go back to Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand in Jan/Feb next year however I am told NO visa is required and I wont have to even take my passport when I am there. I remember crossing the bridge from Malaysia to Singapore in the early 80s they didn't even look at my passport. As a Scot I hope they vote YES but I cant see it with all the crap being floated around
 
If anyone wants to continue this discussion today can someone save all of the posts off site as the supermods will be deleting everything from the past 48 hours to see if that sorts the access issues out.
 
I can't wait until the vote is over.... I have no interest in Scotland at the best of times. This referendum has hijacked the news - hurry up already !
 
mustyfrog said:
agree there Plastic, there are in fact less countries in the world we need a visa for than there are that we do. I strolled into Hong Kong and got a straight up 30 day stamp on my passport. Indonesia, New Zealand, Vanuatu, New Caledonia, Fiji, Macou didn't even stamp my passport. I can apply for a UK passport if I wanted to travel to Europe (soon I hope). My passport atm says I have been to Hong Kong and China and bugger all else. I will see what happens when I go back to Malaysia, Singapore and Thailand in Jan/Feb next year however I am told NO visa is required and I wont have to even take my passport when I am there. I remember crossing the bridge from Malaysia to Singapore in the early 80s they didn't even look at my passport. As a Scot I hope they vote YES but I cant see it with all the crap being floated around
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Us Brits get 6 months in Hong Kong! I think anyone who's British, American or Australian is very lucky as far as ease of travel is concerned.
 
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