Scotland

[Dragonborn]

Inevitable that whatever happens tomorrow the U.K will change for ever. Personally I think it's all very sad.

I know others disagree but too many unanswered questions about defence and currency. The SNP have already said that if we don't let them use the £ they will consider defaulting on the national debt. Nicola Sturgeon hinted at it again yesterday.

Why change something that has worked well for 300 years? Madness.

Too close to call probably but how do you think it'll go?

 

[Swamp]

will they apply to join the EU? that would mean joining the euro too.

if they want the pound they couldn't join the EU, and thats if the member states allow them too?

will oil money plug the gap they need to balance the budget? by all accounts he has vastly overestimated what revenues they will get to make the figures look better.

they'd be worse off…..however, its not purely an economic decision. it looks like being a close call but i think they'll vote no.

 

[Dragonborn]

I think the No vote will edge it but who thought the Yes vote would get so close a few months ago? If they do leave they should not be allowed to use the £ and why would Scots want to? That would mean a foreign country has control over its currency.

Seems to me that they want it both ways, wanting independence but don't want the Euro.

 

[Taffvalerowdy]

It appears to be on a knife-edge.
The Westminster Party Leaders seem to have all been too blasé about the outcome - thinking that Salmond would lose - and their recent actions smack of panic.
If Scotland votes "yes" can either Cameron or Miliband survive as their Party's Leader? Cameron would be the PM who lost the Union, and Miliband would be the Labour Leader who may have lost the chance of Labour forming the next "Anglo-Welsh" Government. (Isn't Scotland a Tory-free Westminster MP zone - and Labour would needs its Scottish MPs to have any hope if being the next Government in Westminster?)

 

[MasterOfNone]

The Scots already get more money per head from the current government. More than Wales, NI and England. They can use that money as they wish currently including taxes but they've declined to use this power.

In every response to a question the SNP seem to come back with paraphrased versions of "shut up, you don't know what you're talking about" rather than giving concise answers. For instance, the military commanders have just released an open letter saying they thing a Yes vote will mean the whole of our island will be weaker. SNP's response was along the lines of "General X should go and speak to Jimmy who is 102 and fought in two wars and is voting Yes". Rather than "we disagree and these are the reasons why..."

If they do vote Yes then I sincerely hope that Scotland and Scotland only have to foot the bill for our divorce as I don't want my tax money going towards something I have not voted for.

I believe that if a political party has 'Nationalist' in it's name then they tend to have something wrong with them

 

[Dragonborn]

I agree Master. I've seen this question about resignations a lot in the media and it's ridiculous, Taff. Why any UK party leader should resign over the Scots' democratic decision is beyond me. On the other hand the whole raison d'etre of the SNP is independence but nobody seems to have asked Salmond if he'll resign in the event of a No vote. He has to go doesn't he?

 

[PGFWhite]

"If in doubt, don't!" That old saying will swing the ballot in favour of No, in my opinion. The No vote will pick up the majority of the undecided voters.

It has been an extremely interesting campaign due to what is at stake, with many people being shocked at some of the tactics involved. It's a pity all elections weren't as interesting as this vote.

NB I was very surprised with the advice given by John Reid, who was campaigning for the No vote. He actually said, if you don't know, don't vote!! He should have said vote No!

On a personal level, I would like to see Scotland go independent. Too many people have said it can't be done, but smaller countries than Scotland exist and survive and if there is enough support north of the border then good luck to them.

 

[Shaper]

My biggest worry is that if a 'yes' vote wins, some pillock in Cardiff Bay will think we should do the same. Let's be honest, they couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery.

As for Scotland, I really can't call it.
The no campaign appears to be going with, "Stop! Save yourself from change!!! It will be really hard to do!"
The yes campaign is no better with, "Prove your patriotism! Say you aren't British and leave!"

Niether camp has put forward a clear reason either way.

 

[Bob the slob]

Up to the Scots but I can see where they are coming from. Many believe they are a grown up country that will only be able to develop if free from English rule (and it is English because of the number of PMs elected in England compared to the rest of the UK). It isn't about not liking the English, it's about not being allowed to be responsible for their own destiny; and not being patronised fro believing they can do so. They are looking to their neighbours in Scandinavia and seeing thriving economies. Norway in particular is a model the Scots would like to emulate and hope the oil revenue they have failed to benefit from for 30 years will last out a bit longer.
As for the £, it is only an interim measure while the transition is taking place. If they join the EU do they have to join the Euro?
This is not the monumental process it's been painted. Scotland and England will not be declaring war on each other, there will be no iron curtain.
Fans who went to watch Swans play Malmo and stayed in Copenhagen will have barely noticed they were travelling between two independent countries, and you had to go across a bridge or get a ferry between Denmark & Sweden.

My personal view is I hope they stay (probably will) as the rest of the UK will forever be ruled by increasingly right wing bankers with more and more power , wealth and privilege going to the South East of England and a few English cities.

 

[plastic]

Lots of unanswered questions because politicians rather lie and use scare tactics than tell the truth. Just saw an interview from one of the guys in charge when Czechoslovakia split up. They asked him how easy it was to separate into two countries. His reply was... very easy. And it is. I think talk for defaulting on debts is all talk and wouldn't happen in practice. If they did default, who would lend to them? Whether is a good thing or not is not easy to say either. But I suppose some countries want their own identity and want the opportunity to run things themselves. They obviously don't think the current system works. If the don't leave now they probably will in the next 20 years, as it's mostly younger people that want it. Another generation and the independence vote may be higher. I doubt they'd have to rejoin the EU, as they are already members. But countries that don't believe in democracy, like Spain, might try to block them. Europe has been slowly breaking up for years and will likely continue to do so.

I think they'll vote no. Then they will get more powers, but what about the rest of the UK? Why should Scotland get more powers and not Wales, England, NI? And why should Scotland MPs get to vote on issues to do with England, Wales, NI?

 

[keith gatebroth]

It looks as if the SNP are a bit late relying on the oil revenue from the North Sea. All the offshore oil concessions have been sold off for huge sums.The Government has spent the proceeds,primarily on the City of London,the NHS,the National Debt,the Olympic Games (in London),and hand outs to immigrants.
No wonder they want independence.

 

[swanseaandproud]

The romance of going it alone has captured mostly the young generation with the older generation are more likely to weigh the pro and cons more. I dont care what they do as im getting on a bit but it will effect the Scottish younger generation more so they should put aside the romance of going alone and think about what it actually means. good luck to them if they vote yes as they will need it and there will be no way back if it goes pear shape which looking at the businesses looking to relocate to the uk should send a strong warning that Scotland economy would not survive on it's own....

 

[Dragonborn]

I don't think there's an appetite for independence here at all really thank goodness and as for paying sums to the City I think you'll find that it's that institution that actually helps swell the coffers in Cardiff - it generates enormous sums for UK PLC and it's no secret that the Southeast of England actually props up the rest of the UK, either directly or indirectly.

As for other countries "existing and surviving", well most do, but it's another thing to have power and influence in the world. Scotland won't be tinpot but neither will it have any influence and it'll become a very small player on a massive stage. How does that make a country better than it was before?

 

[swanseaandproud]

Never mind about the Romanians and the rest flooding our shores we will be flooded by jocks wanting to leave a sinking ship to protect their assets. We should build a 50ft wall north of Carlisle to stop anyone crossing . on second thoughts build the wall south of carlisle as it's a **** place anyway and block them too...

 

[Bob the slob]

It looks as if the SNP are a bit late relying on the oil revenue from the North Sea. All the offshore oil concessions have been sold off for huge sums.The Government has spent the proceeds,primarily on the City of London,the NHS,the National Debt,the Olympic Games (in London),and hand outs to immigrants.
No wonder they want independence.

Immigration over 10 years has brought a net financial gain to the UK of around £800,000,000 - according to all reputable / independent calculators. Given the 'handouts' given to Wales and the NE England complaining about immigrants is a bit spurious. But we all have our prejudices.

 

[DerekTheMole]

I don't see why you'd want to stop being part of a union that's one of the best 'countries' in the world. We all moan now and again about how **** this nation is but in reality are there many other places you'd rather be? If the Scots want to go their own way then I'll personally miss them but in my eyes it would be a huge mistake for them.

Can they manage on their own? Probably.
Will they be as comfortable as they are now economically or defensively? I'd say definitely not (and probably neither will the rest of the UK)

Also I, like everybody else hates it when a politician dodges a question but Salmond is the worst I've ever seen! His ego seems more important to him than the fate of his country.

 

[trundles left foot]

Excuse my ignorance here and hope you can explain, why wouldn't there be any border controls (as stated in the press). They would be an independent country and every time I go abroad I have to go through border control. Also, as an independent country and not part of the EU would Scottish people working in either England or Wales need some sort of work permit to allow them to continue working here. Just a couple of things that sprung to mind when thinking about the vote and was hoping that someone with better knoeledge would be able to answer.

 

[Dragonborn]

You're right tlf - border controls, visas and permits should be imposed because they won't be one thing nor the other. Having said that there would be a lot of costs involved in doing all that which would be wasted if, as I suspect, they will eventually be allowed into the EU. That said some in Europe have already questioned whether it's a fait accompli - looks like the beurocrats only want poor nations these days on order to expand Europe's eastern borders.

 

[Bob the slob]

Never mind about the Romanians and the rest flooding our shores we will be flooded by jocks wanting to leave a sinking ship to protect their assets. We should build a 50ft wall north of Carlisle to stop anyone crossing . on second thoughts build the wall south of carlisle as it's a **** place anyway and block them too...

Five members of my immediate family are currently looking to move to Scotland and will if there is a yes vote; had enough of tories and / or racists running the politics of Wales from England.
Why would you think Scotland couldn't be successful? And the myth that everyone wants to move to England is just that ... a myth, some do most don't. Just because we live in part of the UK that still acts like England's poodle and doffs its metaphorical cap every time we are shafted doesn't mean grown up countries aren't successful.
I would much rather Wales was an independent country but the fact is we have been subservient for so long it would be impossible.
Scotland is the abused wife that leaves while Wales is the poor sod whose confidence has been dismantled by a bully and is beatings with love.

 

[Bob the slob]

You're right tlf - border controls, visas and permits should be imposed because they won't be one thing nor the other. Having said that there would be a lot of costs involved in doing all that which would be wasted if, as I suspect, they will eventually be allowed into the EU. That said some in Europe have already questioned whether it's a fait accompli - looks like the beurocrats only want poor nations these days on order to expand Europe's eastern borders.

Why would all that be necessary? I've never shown id travelling between NI and Ireland, Denmark & Sweden, Spain & Portugal, Belgium & Holland & Germany & France unless I've travelled on a ferry or plane.
Very, small island mentality.