Same s***, different day

[Dangerous Marsupial]

Well another game with 20+ shots, 2/3 possession, double figures for corners and nothing to show for it. You might think that we would realise that what we're doing isn't working and change it. I've read lots of people saying how bad we were but actually I think we were unlucky. Again. I actually think we deserved to win every single one of our last 10 games except Middlesborough but I'm also sure there are plenty of you that will disagree with me on that one!

One thing we can all agree on is that it is incredible, not in a good sense, that we somehow conspire every game to make a couple of mistakes and invariably concede goals from these whilst at the same time squandering a few totally clear cut chances at the other end in between the 15 shots from outside the box we take that end up going for a goalkick. Take today as an example; we scored a goal and threw away a lead again. We hit the cross bar, missed a couple of golden chances and had a stonewall penalty denied. Meanwhile at the other end we went to sleep on two corners and on both cases we were punished. We have over 10 corners at the other end for the umpteenth time this season but no quality in the delivery.

So it is hard to say how much of this is actually Adam's fault because I can't recall an instance of any other club being this unlucky for so long, ever. But at the end of the day if you're not winning games then something has to change. If we had someone else in charge and we were getting dominated every game but pulling a smash and grab off every match (like Ipswich ) then nobody would complain so the opposite is true for Adams' case. However Adams really doesn't help himself. Why did we buy Cuellar (ok, we didn't buy him) and Miquel only to play our best RB at centre half so we can accomodate the hopelessly inadequate Whittaker? Why do we persist with a 4-4-2 when we've won once in ten games with it? Why do we keep playing a striker who isn't that quick or trick on the wing? Why do we play in such a way that we leave poor Michael Turner exposed all the time?

The players have to take a lot of the blame though IMO. Ruddy and Olsson have disappointed me big time this season, they don't seem to be playing anywhere near as good as I know they are capable of. Redmond could be such a good player if he could only find some end product. Whittaker and Grabban aren't good enough for this league IMO. So whilst some players have really impressed me (Jerome, Turner) far too many haven't and of course injuries have been a problem.

What amazes me is that we still aren't that far from the playoffs despite relegation form. I say give Adams Wigan and Huddersfield and if we don't get at least 3 points from those he has to go, no excuses. A lot of people said last season they'd rather see us playing attacking football in the Championship under Adams then the football we played under Hughton. Personally, I'd never of sacked Hugthon. Anyway one thing is for sure:

I want my Norwich back.

 

[Hucks for Manager!]

Mate, we weren't unlucky. No professional football club should ever concede two identical goals from corners. We can't defend, not even slightly (we're not great going forward either - how many clear cut chances did we have today; 2?) and for that, Adams has to go before it's too late.

 

[YellowLittle]

I think it's time to change while we still have enough time to get ourselves back up in the promotion race. I honestly think put everything we have and try and lure Tony Pulis in, he would do a great job and if he says no, so be it, we'll look elsewhere.

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

Mate, we weren't unlucky. No professional football club should ever concede two identical goals from corners. We can't defend, not even slightly (we're not great going forward either - how many clear cut chances did we have today; 2?) and for that, Adams has to go before it's too late.

We had Murphy's miss, hitting the bar, stonewall penalty denied etc. Reading conceded all these and a goal so surely they deserved to lose also by this logic. This is my point; all teams makes mistakes and I would say we make less than most but every time we do it always ends up in the back of the net!

 

[YellowLittle]

We had Murphy's miss, hitting the bar, stonewall penalty denied etc. Reading conceded all these and a goal so surely they deserved to lose also by this logic. This is my point; all teams makes mistakes and I would say we make less than most but every time we do it always ends up in the back of the net!

It's not good enough though, defensively we're shocking.

We're 11th, which isn't really good enough with the squad we have.

I really don't understand we he keeps going 4-4-2. We have players for 5 man midfield and I think it would suit us much more.

Also why the hell have we loaned Elliott Bennett out? We are now short in the wide areas with options. I just don't understand that one either. Lafferty on the wing is just evidence that Neil Adams is incompetent, what attributes of Kyle Lafferty would suggest he would be a good player to have out wide?

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

It's not good enough though, defensively we're shocking.

We're 11th, which isn't really good enough with the squad we have.

I really don't understand we he keeps going 4-4-2. We have players for 5 man midfield and I think it would suit us much more.

Also why the hell have we loaned Elliott Bennett out? We are now short in the wide areas with options. I just don't understand that one either. Lafferty on the wing is just evidence that Neil Adams is incompetent, what attributes of Kyle Lafferty would suggest he would be a good player to have out wide?

Yes I agree it isn't good enough! Does my post sound like I am happy with our position?!? I just don't like reading people saying that Reading played us off the park because they didn't; they were **** and they mugged us like has been the case in every one of our last 10 except Boro and Bolton. I made the exact same point about why are we playing Lafferty on the wing in my OP... and not just loaning out Elliott Bennett, Bassong too and RVW (who surely would offer us something) whilst selling Fer and Pilkington for peanuts! Boy could we use some of these players back. The only good transfer outgoing was Snodds who we got a fair price for and was alongside Turner was the only player worthy of playing in the Prem last season so deserved a move IMO.

 

[Canary Rob]

I don't think we were unlucky either. Reading's centre backs were superb (not just for the two goals) and their midfield had ours in their pockets. Murphy missed a sitter (though I don't really blame him) but we hardly had a host of golden chances that the 'keeper did brilliantly to keep out. One save off Lafferty that I think the 'keeper made look better than it was, but other than that we had nothing special. Stonewall pen? Maybe. The ref was certainly poor and I was impressed with how the Reading players managed to work him perfectly. I thought Glen Murray had a good game too. By the last 20 minutes, I'd say Reading actually looked by far the most comfortable team on the ball.

Oh and Ruddy scored an own goal I think.

The fact is we remain absolutely shocking organisationally (which is about 80% of what defence is). But we also don't look all that impressive going forward. Just about the only thing we can do is pass it between Howson and Tettey on the halfway line. We don't have a long ball or set piece game to speak of, our passing isn't crisp enough to be effective, we certainly don't seem to counterattack well despite having pacey wingers. Frankly, I'm not really sure where to go with this.

Lafferty on the wing is the one thing I agree with, though. It's his main position, and it's a better escape route than sticking him up top and hoofing it at him all day.

 

[Hucks for Manager!]

We had Murphy's miss, hitting the bar, stonewall penalty denied etc. Reading conceded all these and a goal so surely they deserved to lose also by this logic. This is my point; all teams makes mistakes and I would say we make less than most but every time we do it always ends up in the back of the net!

I didn't see us hit the bar, dodgy stream. Other than that, we had Murphy's miss and the goal - two clear cut chances. I don't know what 'logic' you're referring to, Reading didn't deserve to lose and we definitely did.

Also, the ball doesn't end up in the back of the net every time we make a mistake. We make tonnes, the only ones that are noticed are the ones that go in, that's all.

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

I didn't see us hit the bar, dodgy stream. Other than that, we had Murphy's miss and the goal - two clear cut chances. I don't know what 'logic' you're referring to, Reading didn't deserve to lose and we definitely did.

Also, the ball doesn't end up in the back of the net every time we make a mistake. We make tonnes, the only ones that are noticed are the ones that go in, that's all.

Reading had 6 shots, 4 shots on target, two were goals, one was a long range effort and the other forced the corner that led to the goal. So we can't of been making tonnes of mistakes!

 

[Canary Rob]

Reading had 6 shots, 4 shots on target, two were goals, one was a long range effort and the other forced the corner that led to the goal. So we can't of been making tonnes of mistakes!

I don't know. I saw Ruddy throw the ball in our own net. I saw Martin pass the ball to ?Murray to leave a two on one which fortunately Reading mucked up. I saw Whittaker head a clearance across our penalty box to one of the Reading players in acres of space. I saw Turner dally on the ball for far too long and was lucky to get away with a soft free kick after the Reading striker was all over him. I saw several poor corners which directly set up easy counterattacks for Reading (don't we remember how that went last season...)

There were countless mistakes. The two biggest - our marking at corners - we got punished for. We were just lucky we didn't get punished for all of them.

 

[Hucks for Manager!]

I don't know. I saw Ruddy throw the ball in our own net. I saw Martin pass the ball to ?Murray to leave a two on one which fortunately Reading mucked up. I saw Whittaker head a clearance across our penalty box to one of the Reading players in acres of space. I saw Turner dally on the ball for far too long and was lucky to get away with a soft free kick after the Reading striker was all over him. I saw several poor corners which directly set up easy counterattacks for Reading (don't we remember how that went last season...)

There were countless mistakes. The two biggest - our marking at corners - we got punished for. We were just lucky we didn't get punished for all of them.

Thank you. It was the same against Brighton last week as well. Adams clearly doesn't have a clue.

 

[YellowLittle]

I don't think we were unlucky either. Reading's centre backs were superb (not just for the two goals) and their midfield had ours in their pockets. Murphy missed a sitter (though I don't really blame him) but we hardly had a host of golden chances that the 'keeper did brilliantly to keep out. One save off Lafferty that I think the 'keeper made look better than it was, but other than that we had nothing special. Stonewall pen? Maybe. The ref was certainly poor and I was impressed with how the Reading players managed to work him perfectly. I thought Glen Murray had a good game too. By the last 20 minutes, I'd say Reading actually looked by far the most comfortable team on the ball.

Oh and Ruddy scored an own goal I think.

The fact is we remain absolutely shocking organisationally (which is about 80% of what defence is). But we also don't look all that impressive going forward. Just about the only thing we can do is pass it between Howson and Tettey on the halfway line. We don't have a long ball or set piece game to speak of, our passing isn't crisp enough to be effective, we certainly don't seem to counterattack well despite having pacey wingers. Frankly, I'm not really sure where to go with this.

Lafferty on the wing is the one thing I agree with, though. It's his main position, and it's a better escape route than sticking him up top and hoofing it at him all day.

Rob, what part of Lafferty's game makes you think he is a winger?

I wouldn't even stick him up top, I'd put him on the bench. When he comes on though he should be up top. I'm not saying to hoof it up to him all day, he does on occasions have a decent touch and does well in build up play. I don't really think he is good enough but that's how he should be played. I've never seen him stick a decent cross in, i've never seen him create a chance. Ultimately that's the wingers job right?

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

I don't know. I saw Ruddy throw the ball in our own net. I saw Martin pass the ball to ?Murray to leave a two on one which fortunately Reading mucked up. I saw Whittaker head a clearance across our penalty box to one of the Reading players in acres of space. I saw Turner dally on the ball for far too long and was lucky to get away with a soft free kick after the Reading striker was all over him. I saw several poor corners which directly set up easy counterattacks for Reading (don't we remember how that went last season...)

There were countless mistakes. The two biggest - our marking at corners - we got punished for. We were just lucky we didn't get punished for all of them.

Well read the match report on the BBC by a neutral not blinded by hatred. It sounds to from that we were much the better side. In fact the only mention of Reading having any chances are their goals and Ruddy's fumble.

 

[Canary Rob]

Rob, what part of Lafferty's game makes you think he is a winger?

I wouldn't even stick him up top, I'd put him on the bench. When he comes on though he should be up top. I'm not saying to hoof it up to him all day, he does on occasions have a decent touch and does well in build up play. I don't really think he is good enough but that's how he should be played. I've never seen him stick a decent cross in, i've never seen him create a chance. Ultimately that's the wingers job right?

He's reasonably speedy for a big man, and astonishingly good on the ball given his size. He also works very hard defensively. It's clearly where he's experienced playing for the most part. I also don't think his finishing or his heading is anything special, so I'd be worried about him up top on his own - I think we'd be even less effective.

Frankly, I'm not too fussed about him not putting any crosses in. We never have anyone's head on the end of any of the crosses that do go in. He's good at laying the ball off inside.

But mostly I like his touch.

I do agree that he's looking more and more like he should be on the bench as an impact player (which I believe is the only time he's got an assist this season?) I definitely don't think he should be a centre-forward though.

 

[Canary Rob]

Well read the match report on the BBC by a neutral not blinded by hatred. It sounds to from that we were much the better side. In fact the only mention of Reading having any chances are their goals and Ruddy's fumble.

Just read it.

I don't think it disagrees with me at all. Other than I said Ruddy wasn't at fault for either of the goals, though the BBC said he flapped at one (and I'm sure they're right).

The BBC say our defending was inept. And that Hooper, Turner and Murphy had chances to level.

They say Reading defended admirably. Sounds about right. It was hardly a repeat of the Cardiff game last season. For a team on a dreadful run, I thought Reading played reasonably well. A draw may have been a fair result, but given the number of errors we made and how impotent we looked in attack, I'd say we deserved to lose more than they did. Other than a couple of referee calls, I wouldn't say we were noticeably unlucky and I don't think the BBC article does.

 

[Hucks for Manager!]

Well read the match report on the BBC by a neutral not blinded by hatred. It sounds to from that we were much the better side. In fact the only mention of Reading having any chances are their goals and Ruddy's fumble.

What part of our posts were 'blinded by hatred'? The BBC match reports only relay facts, they don't give opinion. Everything that Rob said is true, so how is the BBC even relevant? We can't have been much better, we barely tested their 'keeper once.

 

[toughmeanyellowandgreen]

Well read the match report on the BBC by a neutral not blinded by hatred. It sounds to from that we were much the better side. In fact the only mention of Reading having any chances are their goals and Ruddy's fumble.

Couldn't care less about the match report on the BBC. They're renowned across the industry for employing sloppy and cheap freelancers anyway.

Fact is we've lost at home again, have one win in 10 games, and are well and truly on the slide.

But it's fine, the posters from London will be by soon to post from their ivory towers about how everyone else's opinion is ridiculous and that everything is fine.

 

[Dangerous Marsupial]

I really don't want to get into an argument over something which was only even a small part of my OP but nobody can seriously make a case Reading deserved to beat us! They beat us by one goal scoring both of their only chances of the match whilst we missed a few very good chances and should of had a penalty. So anyone who says Reading deserved the 3 points must be trying really hard to convince themselves we deserved to lose hence I say blinded by hatred!

 

[gruffnuts]

Rob, what part of Lafferty's game makes you think he is a winger?

I wouldn't even stick him up top, I'd put him on the bench. When he comes on though he should be up top. I'm not saying to hoof it up to him all day, he does on occasions have a decent touch and does well in build up play. I don't really think he is good enough but that's how he should be played. I've never seen him stick a decent cross in, i've never seen him create a chance. Ultimately that's the wingers job right?

He played out wide on the left for Palermo all last season with a healthier goal return than any of our lot. And got their player of the season award. Not sure i'd call him a winger, but does his best work out there. Think we'd have to go one up top to play to his strengths in that position...

Have we played anything other than a 4-4-2 this season? Not sure.

 

[Canary Rob]

I really don't want to get into an argument over something which was only even a small part of my OP but nobody can seriously make a case Reading deserved to beat us! They beat us by one goal scoring both of their only chances of the match whilst we missed a few very good chances and should of had a penalty. So anyone who says Reading deserved the 3 points must be trying really hard to convince themselves we deserved to lose hence I say blinded by hatred!

I think the problem is DM, I didn't say Reading deserved 3 points. I said they played well and that we made a lot of errors. Both of which are true. I don't totally disagree with you - Reading certainly made the most of those two massive corner errors. But equally we only have ourselves to blame for that, so we can hardly call ourselves "unlucky". It's not like we lost the match to a wonderstrike and a goal from a sliced scuff which ricocheted off a seagull. I just think if we're going to make as many mistakes as we are (and those two that led to the goal were by no means the only ones as I said) in comparison to Reading who, defensively made only a few errors (most of which led to corners from which we are totally ineffective anyway) then I don't think we can really argue that we were unlucky or indeed that we deserved to win.

I think we may have to agree to disagree

The real issue is that we have some massive hangover problems from last year, with the addition of a few more problems this year, making a big mixed soup of problems and no obvious solutions. Sort it owt Neyul! Or we'll need to find someone else who will, fast.