Saints transfer rumour thread

Think Shaw just a little less mature but better at crosses.

 

Can we sort out a formation with two left backs?

 

Or turn Targett into a winger a la Bale?

 

Ben Reeves is a talented player who has been unluky not to see more action. I wouldn't be surprised to see him leave at the end of the season. He's of a age now where he just needs competitive football to avoid his career from going off the rails.

 

Well you clearly haven't read what you are responding to. I'll say it again, you're talking about booing like it doesn't regularly happen. That is "out of order".

I don't expect anyone to pretend he's really good but I don't think Palace gave him a fair crack of the whip, he made a couple of errors early on and was written off. A bit like Hooiveld has for us this season, is he a bad player now because of that?

I disagree. He was inconsistent, but he had games where he was a real threat, and if his final ball was better (or the other players were better at reading them) he'd have provided a lot more assists.

I don't think he's ever going to be a regular first-team player for us again, but that doesn't mean he's ****. I think Ramirez has played as much as De Ridder has for us and people are still (correctly) saying he will improve, well how do you know De Ridder wouldn't improve if he was given more regular games?

And no, I'm not suggesting he is either as good as Ramirez or should be given more regular games. I wish I didn't have to point out something so blindingly obvious but I know you'll pick up on that if I don't.

There is undeniably a section of fans who abuse certain players, whether it's by booing them at games (which, newsflash, does happen) or by being overly critical on here. I don't think that helps anyone and I think it demeans all of us to have people on here who seem to revel in slagging off our own players. Again I probably have to point out I'm not talking about all criticism, but those who make unwarranted negative comments.

By the way I've never levelled this charge at you, so the degree to which you have taken these general observations to heart is bewildering.

 

Booing doesn't happen that regularly. For Guly it happens to astonishing extent, same for Fox, but other than that booing isn't particularly rife - that said, of course it's an issue and I feel very strongly about it. I regularly get offended whenever the fans treat our players as laughing stocks - an example I pointed out earlier, ironically cheering Boruc whenever he catches the ball really angers me. However, as much of an issue as I see it, in this specific situation I have no problem, because it's reasoned criticism rather than the personal hatred some people seem to have for Guly and Fox.

Well, Hooiveld at least was very impressive last season. Martin wasn't.

He had games against the lower teams in the divisions where his playstyle (running about aimlessly) flattered to deceive, but the fact his final ball was 90% of the time atrocious undid any good work of his. I know I wasn't nearly alone in not liking him last season.

Having to look up stats to prove my point here, but De Ridder has played 32 times (in the league, not counting cup games) and Ramirez 13, so it's not close. The logic Ramirez will improve but De Ridder won't? Ramirez has shown his incredible talent in games, De Ridder has shown basic low-level winger "run around and toe poke the ball into the box" talent. Ramirez is a 22 year old who regularly plays for one of the best international teams in the world. De Ridder is 25 and has played a few times for the Belgian youth teams. There's a significant reason why people believe Ramirez has the potential to improve (which suggests he's not playing at a good level to begin with - he definitely is) but De Ridder doesn't have a much higher ceiling.

Again, I haven't denied booing happens, and have pointed it out myself. Let's stop pretending that I don't think it's an issue because I feel it is more than most, and of course it doesn't help. That's why I take issue against it. However, in this exact situation that you've picked on, nothing comes close to that level.

And just because you've never aimed it at me, it doesn't mean I'm not allowed to dislike where you're coming from. I fear it'll get to the stage that people like gmi think we're at already - where you're not allowed to criticise anybody and everybody must be, to use his loathsome phrase, a "happy clapper". As it happens, I disagreed with your original post (not particularly taking it to heart) and you replied, therefore I'll show you respect by continuing the discussion rather than ignoring you.

To summarise. Booing, ironic cheers etc, big problem. If Martin gets booed, believe me, I'll be as disappointed as you are. However, nothing I've seen so far suggests that'll happen - in fact, I think the crowd will love him, because he's the plucky local underdog. However, it seems a number of people on here (including me) have seen enough to think he's not good enough for us, however will probably support him all the same.

 

Excuse me guys, can I see your gambling license...?

 

I don't criticise players for seeing their contracts out. They have families and mortgages and a short career (which could be stopped by injury at any point). Would anyone halve their wages if they still had a year or two to go. Players move their homes and families because they have a contract. Saints are a business...so the players aren't cheating a charity. Contracts work both ways...they stop a player moving on a whim and in exchange they get a guaranteed wage for a fixed period.

 

It's more than common at Saints, though. Bale, Walcott, and Shaw as you mentioned.

 

So your happy for people like Dickson and Chaplow etc to just sit and do nothing for their wages? Even tho they are way down the pecking order?. I'm not ,Dickson was even moaning about not being given a free transfer a few months back. He is ok for Saints to pay his contract up , but not happy to just walk?. That in my book is greedy.

 

Agree with Fran totally.

Happy about the situation is not the right word but i'm not disappointed. Teams have to legislate for these situations when signing players. They agree whats needed for both parties to get a deal. When our circumstances change fore the better, we cant just dump them off when it suits us and expect them to just accept it.

 

Well we agree on plenty here, though I would go further and say that any booing of a player who is just coming on is unacceptable. Frankly it's unacceptable in almost all scenarios.

I accept Martin hasn't received that kind of treatment, but the way he is talked about on here is reminiscent of the way the others are/were talked about. De Ridder hasn't really been booed but there is a lot of muttering when he plays and I'm sure the players hear that and it has a negative effect on them. That's the kind of thing I can imagine undermining a young player's confidence.

De Ridder played 27 of those games as a substitute, he played 1023 minutes in the league last season, Ramirez has started all but 2 of his games and has played 1013 minutes so far this season, so actually it's incredibly close. Clearly playing longer in each game will benefit Ramirez also.

Their minutes per goal ratio is also astonishingly close actually, 338 for Ramirez and 341 for De Ridder. I'll say again I don't believe De Ridder is anywhere near as good as Ramirez, but the comparison has clearly has some merit.

Well you did appear to downplay the prevalence and significance of booing, but now you've clarified your position I'll gladly clarify I'm not accusing you of denying it!

I'd suggest you guard against worrying what GMI might call you by the way!

 

If you were made redundant would you happily walk away with nothing?

 

.No, I don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't halve my salary if on a contract so why should they?

 

I'm not on about the team dumping them, i'm on about players that moan they aren't playing etc but aren't willing to do anything about it. If I was Dickson I would have asked to leave(mutual consent if need be) so I could get to actually play then just moan about not playing. The only reason he isn't willing to just cancel his contract is because of the cash he is earning, so imo a greedy bastard.

 

I'm not on the money he is on am I?, i'm not sat on my arse moaning at my employers. If I didn't like my job I would look for a new one even if it was for less money. I'm not about the club just dumping him, I just think if he's unhappy and moaning why milk the club?.

 

I've always found De Ridder to get a surprisingly positive reaction, certainly more positive than his performances warrant. Last season, particularly, you would always hear fans shouting his name to bring him on - though I'm unsure whether this is because they really love Steve, or were just desperate to see Guly substituted off.

I respect why that would be a fear but my main issue was that so far, I've not seen anything as a cause for concern. I suppose we'll have to wait to find out, though hopefully (from a purely football perspective) we don't have to find out - unless of course, he has come on leaps and bounds.

I'm surprised it's so close, I stand corrected, though the comparison could stretch further. De Ridder's appearances have been spread over a year and a half, while Ramirez has been playing for just a few months. Over that year and a half, there has been no noticeable change in De Ridder's performances, which doesn't bode well for any potential he may have - maybe if he was getting 90 minutes a week, that'd change, but training every day for a year and a half with no noticeable improvement doesn't fill me, or other doubters of his, with confidence.

Glad you understand I wasn't advocating the behaviour of some fans - my point wasn't "it's okay to boo Martin because he's **** but Rodriguez isn't", which I fear was the message I was sending.

 

He could well be a greedy bastard, but he may have had chances to move on loan much earlier but may be we refused to pay some of his wage or such like. I agree moaning in the press while on full pay is a bit pathetic. But i do agree with Fran that contracts work both ways and all parties must be prepared for that. How much do you reckon he's on any way, it cant be mega bucks (in footy terms) surely?

 

I've never seen Targett play but I can confidently say that nobody knows if he will become a first team regular. We have people talking about him being better at some things than Shaw and maybe turning him into a winger etc... all conjecture until people have seen him play multiple games for the first team.

Something like 95% of our youth players will play below Premier League level. I (used to) hear the same praise of Jack Stephens yet when I saw him pre-season against Wolves he was awful.

 

Any transfer news then!