Sacking the manager is not the solution.

[carry- on- rovers]

We cannot keep on sacking or blaming the manager for our current position in the league.

Is a short term decline in performance really a good reason for firing Ward?

It's not a new phenomenon which is taking place,we have all witnessed a small bounce-back in performance immediately following the appointment of a new manager ie, Trollope,Buckle,McGhee and Ward. But it would have probably happened anyway, and may well have been much cheaper for our club to hang on rather than be faced with hefty pay-offs and huge disruption in the playing and coaching staff.

Ward has not become a poor manager overnight,I suggest that football league clubs are similar to the financial markets you often get a natural correction, as we have witnessed in both Rovers and City many times over the seasons we have watched them.

Does it make any real difference at all who's the manager?especially if dips in form are naturally corrected.?

Grant you our club is sinking faster than the titanic and the squad has the average age below that of a policeman.

Our recent points tally also looks poor and when the mob (fans) shout again that the manager and the directors don't know what there doing, the board/chairman decides to let the manager go and surprise surprise . Reprise, repeat.

For those with short term memories we all worked out (statistically) that if we had retained Trollope we would have stayed up (only if we acheived the average points tally over the remaining games of the L1 season that he had acheived in the games before his sack) but the trigger was pulled and bang , result we went down!So sacking Ward should not be based just on the recent results.

Rather than the finger in the the air, mob rules, decision made by the board should they consider the reason? our poor run of results, some of those defeats are down to random bad luck, injuries, a tough run of fixtures wage cap and such like, all of which will eventually revert to the mean.

I have come to the conclusion that football is more random than we care to admit (you dont always get what you deserve).When we do, those frustrating defeats and draws suddenly turn into wins and every one is happy

Hmm its football perhaps not every one.

You cannot as a supporter be so fickle one moment we think Ward is the answer to all our problems and the next cry we want his head.

Its one mans opinion but I would stick with Ward......... do you agree?

COR

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What happens if we sack Ward get in a new manager and continue to see a lousy run of form. If slumps in form are often naturally corrected, does it make no difference at all who's at the helm?

 

[mark1gas]

I Agree...

JW has lots experience and will need to use all of it within the next month or so... I think we need to give him time to workout what is going so wrong at the moment!

I feel that the players should have a good look at themselves as its the same bunch that did so well at the end of last season! so why such a dip in form?
well that's for the manager to sort out! so i say give JW time instead of all calling for his head...

Lets be honest, who will want to take on Rovers at the moment anyway? at best someone with not alot of experience! we must learn by our passed mistakes, sacking the manager every two minutes does not solve anything...

 

[carry- on- rovers]

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[Chris-Gashead]

I agree Ward is not really the problem. But unless the whole club is changed from top to bottom, we will not get anything other than dross for the forseable!

 

[carry- on- rovers]

CG There appears to be a lot happening at the club that we are not prive to,Ward appears to be trying to reduce the playing budget reshaping the team by bringing on and in a lot of younger and cheaper players,shipping out the long term contracted and expensive ones when and where he can.

Mr Higgs talks a good game about monies being avaliable to bring in players,however resources appear to be very limited Ward keeps mentioning the wage cap,if a decent amount of money was avaliable then we would have attracted a reasonable striker and other essential players,Brunt was brought in as a longer term prospect not a main striker we rely on week in week out.

Look at the two youngsters we have just got on loan as Ward stated they do not have much experience between them again if money were no object then perhaps we would have attracted more experienced players on longer contracts also kept Bond.

COR

 

[Chris-Gashead]

CG There appears to be a lot happening at the club that we are not prive to,Ward appears to be trying to reduce the playing budget reshaping the team by bringing on and in a lot of younger and cheaper players,shipping out the long term contracted and expensive ones when and where he can.

Mr Higgs talks a good game about monies being avaliable to bring in players,however resources appear to be very limited Ward keeps mentioning the wage cap,if a decent amount of money was avaliable then we would have attracted a reasonable striker and other essential players,Brunt was brought in as a longer term prospect not a main striker we rely on week in week out.

Look at the two youngsters we have just got on loan as Ward stated they do not have much experience between them again if money were no object then perhaps we would have attracted more experienced players on longer contracts also kept Bond.

COR

As I said COR, Ward isn't the problem. The club needs to be changed around at the top. One consistant factor in our downfall is the board. Change that about a bit and see if that makes a difference. If it doesn;t then we need to look elsewhere. Changing the manager on a 6 monthly basis will do us no good.

 

[Gasheadseamge79]

JW does pick the team and deploy the tactics however the squad is just frigging atrocious (worse squad I've ever seen as a gashead) nothing to with not being experienced most are just not good enough period I mean FFS I bet players like Harrison are on twice as much as Accrington's players, its very unlikely that any of them would get in the Chesterfield team or anyone else in the top 10. And yes you can keep sacking managers it happens in the Premiership and Championship . Anyway JW and the players are going to have to pull there socks up because at this rate we will be getting relegated.

 

[gdknac]

Forgive the intrusion-This is the first time I have looked around your message board. It is interesting to see however, and sadly, that the majority of you are as pis*ed off as myself and most City fans about the current plight of our teams.

What on earth is going on is getting beyond me. I remember John Ward doing well not only for Rovers but for City as well and you had a great run when he first came last year. SOD did well initially, but the wheels really have come off and no league win for 21 games is getting out of hand.

I cant realistically see Holloway coming to either team as much as his association with Bristol, and heck, why would he want to. Either way, both teams deserve far better than we are getting now and I genuinely hope to see better times for both clubs.

 

[pirate49]

I'm mystified.....I don't have any answers. There's probably a thesis waiting to be written
about the malaise which affects both clubs.
I'd stick with Ward...no hugely positive reasons why...but all previous experience says that
a change won't make one bluddy jot of difference!

 

[Gasheadseamge79]

Well Sheffield aren't doing much better

 

[carry- on- rovers]

Your welcome Gdknac,the Holloway one is interesting,firstly I do not think we could afford him,also the board may feel intimidated by his popularity with the fans,he also similar to JW is quite open and honest about why the team is not performing,finally he would walk into a Championship job easily given his record of working with a small budget and getting teams promod to the prem.So if City want a new broom agree it will not be Holloway.As for Rovers and City its been a while since both teams dissapointed the fans so much so that neither of us can gloat or extract the micheal out of each other given our own problems.Nice to hear that you wish us good times so I recipricate the sentiment (dont tell my dad though)!

21 games without a win is huge however from what we read and see from afar (hear in my case as my family support City) he has worked hard to reduce the budget and bring in players on reasonable wages,the trouble appears to be that they have not gelled as a unit and some of them are not the quality you would have expected,when you played us you won the game at a canter, the trouble is we are a poor L2 side so that was an unfair litmus test.As for losing games City appear to have a self destruct button which is usually pressed at the end of games O Driscoll needs to sort that crumble under pressure attitude and fast as he is always saying you played well for 80 mins of the game,the trouble is the game usually lasts 93mins on av.

Gumanji we all know that the strikers are woeful and would struggle to hit a barn door at 4 paces let alone score more than one goal accidentily,the midfield changes more times than my partner before we go out on a night out.I thought that Bond helped tighten up the midfield but maybe it was match fitness failed to provide any decent link from mid to attackers,the youngsters Clucas,Lockyear,Santos and Clarke tend to chase the game and have little composure on the ball,getting caught out leaving to much space for the oppositions midfield and attackers to exploit which is understandable as they as Ward states are young and learning the game the hard way game by game.

We do need another competant midfielder to partner O Toole (who is trying to be all things to all people striker midfield enforcer and even a defender which leaves him stretched and picking up cards.Similar to what Capt fantastic was doing in his last two seasons with us.Also a striker possibly two (wont happen) to make us dangerous in the final third again and improve compo for places.

CG new blood we need it to take us into the 20th century,a decent marketing man along with someone that understands football perhaps Ward could be that man eventually when he has sorted out the mess we are in on the field.

COR

 

[gas]

I'm mystified.....I don't have any answers. There's probably a thesis waiting to be written
about the malaise which affects both clubs.
I'd stick with Ward...no hugely positive reasons why...but all previous experience says that
a change won't make one bluddy jot of difference!

My sentiments exactly.

 

[smhbcfc]

I'm mystified.....I don't have any answers. There's probably a thesis waiting to be written
about the malaise which affects both clubs.
I'd stick with Ward...no hugely positive reasons why...but all previous experience says that
a change won't make one bluddy jot of difference!

Dead right - both clubs in exactly the same position

 

[carry- on- rovers]

I wonder if more financial resources will be given to both Managers before the year end.

Suggest that Rovers will dig deep as for City given the financial constraints I am not sure City fans would have to answer that thorny question?

The more likely scenariois that one of the boards reach for the gun first and feel that it is incumbent on them to act and sack the manager,given City have not won in 21 games how many more games will O Driscoll be given?

COR

 

[Sapphire]

Most businesses when faced with underperformance get all the involved parties around the table and try and put the finger on what is not working and try and come up with a solution to put matters right. Quite often one of the most insignificant characters hits the nail on the head. I can't see why football clubs should treat the matter any differently. Obviously the Manager will expect to be accepted as a higher level of authority than any other person around the table, but he should not be above listening sympathetically to the views of his colleagues.

In the business world it is common to kick underperformers upstairs or make them redundant if they are felt be a major reason for the underperformance. But in the Bristol club's case, have both managers suddenly become inadequate?

I have felt for a long time that the malaise that affected both Bristol clubs was down to 'bad eggs' in the dressing rooms. but that is unlikely to be the case at present as the turnover of playing staff should have resolved any problem of that nature.

I think both clubs need to sit down and have a good look at the 'business plan' (coaching and team tactics) and come up with a more appropriate philosophy.

It's too early to write either club off, but we would all expect to see a change in what's going on and at least a small improvement!

I also am not in agreement that all of the problems lay at Boardroom level. Nick Higgs et al don't go out on the pitch and play the games. They do their bit by administering the club, choosing the Manager and signing the cheques for whoever he chooses to employ. They have done a terrific job over the stadium. Let's give them a bit of credit, please.

 

[Captain Jack Sparrow]

* he saved us last season
* he proved last season what he can do in this league with us
* he has had to deal with a lot injuries and continues to get them
* he has had to deal with long contracts that were given by former managers
* he has had to deal with the wage cap which has restricted him

but...

* he has been way too defensive in tactics
* playing players out of position
* in need of a winger so he signs a CM (bond) and plays him on the wing
* cant make his mind up where to play harrison
* has a worse record than buckle and mcghee

so there is the good and bad this season under ward.

but if we get rid then we will have to pay him off which will effect the finances and have a knock on effect to the wage cap which cocks us up on next season!

 

[carry- on- rovers]

Am I right in thinking that Ward has a one year contract?

If so it will not be as costly as with previous managers when we let them go gardening leave etc

CJ posted
* he has been way too defensive in tactics perhaps it was that we were leaking goals and the problem was at the back
* playing players out of position Assume it is down to injuries or he thought they could do a job for the team
* in need of a winger so he signs a CM (bond) and plays him on the wing we also needed to tighten up in central midfield which I think Bond did a reasonable job he was defo not a winger though
* cant make his mind up where to play harrison-Harrison appears to have his mind on other things (poss court case) so I dont think it matters where you play him he is not the player he was last season

* has a worse record than buckle and mcghee I need to look at the stats does that include last season or just this one? mind you both of them had spent heavily on new players especially Chuckle 17 new players

Its definately not working under Ward at the moment one concern is the youngsters lack of composure on the ball and poor decision making during the match if we were scoring a few then they would have wiggle room to make those errors and grow into the role but they dont.

The trouble with all this navel gazing is that it is just that and its easier to be critical rather than seek out the positives If Ward and the coaching staff were as negative as some of the supporters the team would have zero confidence going into every match and fearful of making an error which costs us the game.

As I said nothing more random than football results Man Utd were all over Real Sociedad last night but could have easily come away with a draw (similar to the saints match on the weekend) as they only managed to score one goal even with all that attacking ability and not to say chances.

Arsenal lost to a breakaway goal when they were on top and only scored one due to lack of penetration in the final third


COR

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[Captain Jack Sparrow]

need to look at the stats does that include last season or just this one? mind you both of them had spent heavily on new players especially Chuckle 17 new players

start of the 11/12 season for buckle, played 13 and got 18 points.
start of the 12/13 season for mcghee, played 13 and got 14 points.
start of the 13/14 season for ward, played 13 and got 10 points.

currently 8 pioints behind poor buckle.

 

[carry- on- rovers]

CJ posted
start of the 11/12 season for buckle, played 13 and got 18 points.
start of the 12/13 season for mcghee, played 13 and got 14 points.
start of the 13/14 season for ward, played 13 and got 10 points.

currently 8 points behind poor buckle.

Not looking very positive for Ward on the comparison front CJ I can only assume that due to the injuries at the end and start of the season coupled with lower expectations managed by Ward we feel more relaxed towards our current position than perhaps we should be!

With all the changes and new players Buckle and McGhee brought into the club we may have thought, here we go potential challengers for at least the playoffs, under Ward we knew there would have to be a period of change whlile he cleared out the expensive players and coped with the injuries.

Also looking at the stats I know understand why we are still behind Ward as he took us on a great ride from the bottom last season under McGhee on a steady rise to the heady heights of 11th with a little dip in the last 4 matches also we only lost 5 out of 21 matches which was promo form.

As for Buckle he got right up the Fans noses and irritated the c**p out of us abrasive you say I could not possibly comment, if he did the same to the board of directors that would explain his demise.Also took no responsibility for our inconsistent form at the time allegily.The stats are better than the last two so perhaps our expectations were too high with him.

Saph posted I also am not in agreement that all of the problems lay at Boardroom level. Nick Higgs et al don't go out on the pitch and play the games. They do their bit by administering the club, choosing the Manager and signing the cheques for whoever he chooses to employ. They have done a terrific job over the stadium. Let's give them a bit of credit, please.

I dont blame the current board for our current predicament,merely pointing out that as you have highlighted a more considered approach as to when they should pull the trigger and sack the manager should be top of the agenda during there meetings,perhaps seeking impartial outside assistance may help putting the current situation in perspective before they take that big step.The impatient fans dont help in the process by voicing there disapproval without knowing the full facts.

I also think that the comms with Higgs saying there is money avaliable and Ward saying there is not is confusing the picture.

Perhaps the money is avaliable but is rather to low to attract experienced players as this time.



COR

 

[AGasfan]

Keep the faith with Ward,

Look at the team other than the keeper, the average age is 20!

I doubt there is any manager who could get much more out of these kids.

But we seriously need to get someone who can score goals.