Sack race

Viking Erik said:
I think we'd have taken a point from Burnley, but nothing from Sunderland. As for "we'd be a Premier League club again now anyway", on what exactly do you base this? For a start, you're clearly ignoring the fact that we'd still be in the **** financially, and we'd probably be signing no different a calibre of player.
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Still don't think there's any excuse for the start we had this season, nor our home form. We had some dire performances last season, that I just couldn't see happening under Brown, added to that Bullard would have wanted to play under Brown and that would've made an incredible difference, we'd still have Ash too.



I agree (kind of) about the respect thing. I certainly respect him. I think he's a bit of a numpty with some of the things he's said and done, but he did the club a great service in his time here, certainly between December 2006 and May 2009. There are a few fans who claim to have insider knowledge about how he and Duffen acted both on and off-the-job, but do they? Maybe. Will you or I ever know for certain? No. Will you or I ever slag Brown off, as a person? I won't.
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Duffen gave a speech at the Children's University the other night, I doubt they'd allow a criminal to speak. Added to that, he's still in contact with Assem Allam, obviously people will have their stories, but I think it's complete bollocks. Bad financial management? Yes. Criminal activity? No.

Febbos said:
I'm happy for Phil finding his new dream besides the Preston-thing :cheesy:
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You would love that TWF wouldn't you? :emoticon-0103-cool:
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I'd pop along, see what it was like, I'm only human.
MattTheTiger said:
I would make some sort of comment about how perky is a noob but, I can't really be bothered. I think it goes without saying.
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You'll be on your own, everyone loves me now.
 
Percival said:
Still don't think there's any excuse for the start we had this season, nor our home form. We had some dire performances last season, that I just couldn't see happening under Brown, added to that Bullard would have wanted to play under Brown and that would've made an incredible difference, we'd still have Ash too.
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Under Brown our home form might have been better, but you could just as easily bring up the fact we'd just gone a year without an away win under his tutelage. As for Bullard, who knows, is all I can say.

Percival said:
Duffen gave a speech at the Children's University the other night, I doubt they'd allow a criminal to speak. Added to that, he's still in contact with Assem Allam, obviously people will have their stories, but I think it's complete bollocks. Bad financial management? Yes. Criminal activity? No.
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I completely agree about the criminal activity. The 'stories' I was referencing were those pertaining to the nature of the financial management at the club, and what exactly happened to the money. Of course, I'm not insinuating that the actions of Duffen and Bartlett et al could even be construed as criminal, only that we will never know for certain what those actions were.
 
Viking Erik said:
Under Brown our home form might have been better, but you could just as easily bring up the fact we'd just gone a year without an away win under his tutelage. As for Bullard, who knows, is all I can say.
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The away run was in the Premiership though, let's be honest, there's a huge difference between the Championship and Premier League, it's hardly fair to compare a run that included Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, to one that included of Scunthorpe, Crystal Palace and Barnsley.

As for home performances, I saw far more passion in PL defeats than I did in some Championship draws or even wins.
 
Percival said:
The away run was in the Premiership though, let's be honest, there's a huge difference between the Championship and Premier League, it's hardly fair to compare a run that included Man Utd, Arsenal and Chelsea, to one that included of Scunthorpe, Crystal Palace and Barnsley
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I think you're oversimplifying things!

Percival said:
As for home performances, I saw far more passion in PL defeats than I did in some Championship draws or even wins.
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There were some performances that stood out in the Premier League, such as the games against Arsenal and the 2-0 defeat at Burnley, etc with regards to passion. I felt proud to be a Hull City fan after those games, even in defeat. But there were also some absolute shockers, devoid of passion, effort and, it has to be said, footballing ability on our part.
 
Viking Erik said:
I think you're oversimplifying things!



There were some performances that stood out in the Premier League, such as the games against Arsenal and the 2-0 defeat at Burnley, etc with regards to passion. I felt proud to be a Hull City fan after those games, even in defeat. But there were also some absolute shockers, devoid of passion, effort and, it has to be said, footballing ability on our part.
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True, but that's going to be true of any team, any season. Even though we lost far more during our Premiership years than we did last season I never felt the team was under peforming nearly as much as I did last season.
 
Percival said:
True, but that's going to be true of any team, any season. Even though we lost far more during our Premiership years than we did last season I never felt the team was under peforming nearly as much as I did last season.
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In the Premier League I would say I never really felt like we were underperforming, simply because we were expected to get thrashed every week! <laugh>

When we got relegated, and the extent of our off-pitch problems was revealed, I expected another struggle this year. I think it's unreasonable for you to say we should definitely have finished higher than we did, and that 11th was an underachievement.
After the way we finished 2011, I would say that we are well within our rights to say we should be pushing for the top-6 next year, but come on; what exactly did you expect from the last 12 months? I don't recall you ever saying with any precision how you felt we should be doing, even if it was implicit from your constant posts stating that we weren't meeting your demands!
 
Percival said:
I reckon we'd have got wins against Burnley and Sunderland at home. In the unlikely event that we did get relegated under Brown, we'd be a Premier League club again now anyway. Obviously not everyone agrees.
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I do admire you still sticking up for his apalling record in those last 18 months.

I can see no evidence whatsoever that Brownie would have kept us up, maybe you have some I've overlooked to show that either we would have stayed up or we'd have bounced back up.

I just wish you'd wear your "optimistic hat" a bit more when looking at the current team. Sometimes however, your statements (like above) make you sound like a wazzock (which I'm sure you're not!).

Still, always nice to have your views here.

:emoticon-0150-hands
 
He likes one, so only sees the positives.

He dislikes one, so only sees the negatives.

It's a very niave and blinkered view, but I don't expect it to change any time soon.
 
Percival said:
I reckon we'd have got wins against Burnley and Sunderland at home. In the unlikely event that we did get relegated under Brown, we'd be a Premier League club again now anyway. Obviously not everyone agrees.

One thing is for sure, then man deserves far more respect from City fans than what he gets. He's arguably our greatest ever manager, yet people insist on slagging him off.
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The premier league thing is all hypothetical, going by the form we had all season i expect we'd have been relegated but i guess we'll never know for sure. I think i'll speak for a lot of people when i say we respect and thank Brown for his acheivements at the club, however this doesn't make him immune from any criticism or playful micky taking. The bloke made some questionable decisions in his final months here and he left himself open to some playful ribbing sometimes, but most of us above all are still greatful to him. From listening to 606 on 5 live last season the Arsenal fans seem to be in a similar position with Wenger, where although they appreciate what he has done for them (arguably their most successful ever) their trophyless seasons and persistence with the young players has left him open to criticism. They are still greatful to him for what he has acheived, but it doesn't make him immune to any criticism and it's the same with PB.

As for the 'we'd be a PL club this season if PB were here' i don't think we would be. We'd still be in the same financial **** at the start of the year, losing the same players and maybe not attracting the same players (Koren, Rosenior, Fryatt etc) that NP did. We would also be starting the season with the same squad that had a habit of losing, i don't see how that would change with PB so the poor start would still have happened regardless of the manager. Furthermore, we weren't exactly famous for playing attractive football under Brown. I agree with Ash still been here and PB would ave being instrumental in motivating Bullard to play, but Bullard's injury record speaks for itself and there would be no gaurantee that he would have stayed fit long enough to make a noticeable impact on the team.
 
<applause>

Well said HaL, that was exactly what I was trying to say. <ok>

I'd still like Percy to clarify what his expectations for the past year were. If he doesn't mind, of course. :D
 
Viking Erik said:
<applause>

Well said HaL, that was exactly what I was trying to say. <ok>

I'd still like Percy to clarify what his expectations for the past year were. If he doesn't mind, of course. :D
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I don't think it was unreasonable to expect the play-offs. Our squad was always decent enough.
 
Viking Erik said:
If you include Bullard, Olofinjana, etc, maybe it was. But what else would/could you have done regarding the financial situation?
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Well obviously they would have made a difference, and as I've said before, the Bullard situation should never have been allowed to get out of hand, and if it wasn't for Our Dear Leader it wouldn't have. But even if they weren't here, I still think we should have done better than we did.

I think it comes down to the fact that obviously the squad from our PL days didn't take to Pearson, obviously that wouldn't have been an issue under Brown.
 
Percival said:
Well obviously they would have made a difference, and as I've said before, the Bullard situation should never have been allowed to get out of hand, and if it wasn't for Our Dear Leader it wouldn't have. But even if they weren't here, I still think we should have done better than we did.

I think it comes down to the fact that obviously the squad from our PL days didn't take to Pearson, obviously that wouldn't have been an issue under Brown.
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What squad?! We lost like 12-15 players between the second PL-season and this. NP had to build a new squad from the ground more or less. We had Dawson, Ashbee and Barmby+the youngsters left from Premier League, probably forgotten someone.

Edit: If you mean Nigel Pearson, and not Adam...
 
Febbos said:
What squad?! We lost like 12-15 players between the second PL-season and this. NP had to build a new squad from the ground more or less. We had Dawson, Ashbee and Barmby+the youngsters left from Premier League, probably forgotten someone.

Edit: If you mean Nigel Pearson, and not Adam...
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If you include players we loaned out, it was more like 25-30. (I think 27 was the exact number, but you'll have to check).
 
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