Rule R7

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Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
I can see what you're arguing, and it may turn out to be right. I just don't read it as clear as you are, because it can be spun different ways, plus there are other parts in the rules that can be used. If one of the zones is a cheaper price than others, that is arguably a concession. The fact others can take advantage of that arguably makes it a wider concession.
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If the rate is the same for all, it's not a concession.

A concession is a reduced rate compared to the normal rate.

The club have specified the normal rates for each zone.

Concessions must be available to juniors & oldies, that means they pay a lower rate to the normal rate.

The club have stated that they are not recognising age & status when determining the rate supporters pay, "Same zone price for all".

To me, it couldn't be clearer.
 
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Sir Cheshire Ben said:
If the rate is the same for all, it's not a concession.

A concession is a reduced rate compared to the normal rate.

The club have specified the normal rates for each zone.

Concessions must be available to juniors & oldies, that means they pay a lower rate to the normal rate.

The club have stated that they are not recognising age & status when determining the rate supporters pay, "Same zone price for all".

To me, it couldn't be clearer.
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They could argue that to fit with what you feel is the interpretation of the rule, they would have to move people that don't meet the requirements for that stand, so they've conceded that and allowed more people to benefit.

If it's against the rules, the Prem won't accept us, and they'll want the fixtures sorting ASAP, so we'll find out soon enough.
 
**** my life


You are all right. And it makes no difference to the outcome! It's like a sad case of Groundhog Day in here.

What you believe is just that. Doesn't the fact that there is such a difference of what you believe tell you something? Not sure you have any consensus on "concession" for a start.

Q.E.D.

And that's the Latin, not the tv program.
 
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Really not sure how it's such a struggle to grasp that a flat, cheaper rate in a section is not a concession, it's a flat, cheaper rate.

If I catch a train outside peak hours and it's cheaper for me, that's not a concession. If I catch the train to school and the adult sitting next to me on the train has had to pay more than me, then I am receiving a concession.

It's not bloody rocket science.
 
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Mr. Shoes said:
**** my life


You are all right. And it makes no difference to the outcome! It's like a sad case of Groundhog Day in here.

What you believe is just that. Doesn't the fact that there is such a difference of what you believe tell you something? Not sure you have any consensus on "concession" for a start.

Q.E.D.

And that's the Latin, not the tv program.
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Ah, that good old pomposity, again.

Are we duty bound to reach a concensus on here; surely you realise there are more than just little old you who thrive on looking for anything other than the bleeding obvious?

Always funny when someone resorts to Latin. QED . . . <laugh>

Anyway, I'm reckoning the PL will point to option (meaning) No. 2. It will be the reasonable meaning to use from those on offer.

You aren't still in that can, surely <yikes>

concession
kənˈsɛʃ(ə)n/
noun
noun: concession; plural noun: concessions
  1. 1.
    a thing that is granted, especially in response to demands.
    "the government was unwilling to make any further concessions"
    synonyms: compromise, adjustment, modification; More
    allowance, exception;
    point conceded, point lost, forfeit, something surrendered;
    informalsop
    "the government made several concessions over welfare cuts"
  2. 2.
    a preferential allowance or rate given by an organization.
    "tax concessions"
  3. 3.
    the right to use land or other property for a specified purpose, granted by a government, company, or other controlling body.
    "new logging concessions"
    synonyms: right, privilege, favour; More
    licence, permit, franchise, warrant, authorization
    "the granting of new logging concessions"
    • a commercial operation set up by agreement within the premises of a larger concern.
      "the concessions will offer photo processing and a pharmacy"
    • the right, given by a company, to sell goods, especially in a particular place.
    • CANADIAN
      a piece of land into which surveyed land is divided.
 
Let me help you.

If the PL meant meaning No. 1, then what was the thing the PL wanted (or demanded) as their concession? Is there a reasonable interpretation that can be taken from precedence of previous membership, perhaps?

If the PL meant meaning No. 3, then what is the right that should be allowed? Is a family area a common right in football and known as a concession by precedence?

Now look at meaning No. 2, it deals specifically with a preferential price reduction or discount from the normal rates. I will make a leap of faith here and say the normal rates could be those of a zone in which those (normal) rates apply. Now for the hard part, we must struggle to find a precedent for this type of discount; have Hull City ever complied before, is it reasonable to interpret it as meaning a reduced rate.

If you insist on wasting (taking :emoticon-0105-wink: ) your clients money further, then explain how meanings No. 1 or 3 should be favoured over meaning No. 2.
 
While the club could have argued that having priority for families in the South stand, there argument fails because they have allowed adults without children to stay in their seats.

Unfortunately, I can't see a quick decision being agreed so this will run on. Knowing my luck after my seats in the East has been taken by some premier league 'fan'
 
Siegfried's cat said:
While the club could have argued that having priority for families in the South stand, there argument fails because they have allowed adults without children to stay in their seats.

Unfortunately, I can't see a quick decision being agreed so this will run on. Knowing my luck after my seats in the East has been taken by some premier league 'fan'
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It could be argued that allowing additional people to benefit from the ' concession' rat her than just evicting them would strengthen the club's case rather than knock it over. Also, that rule could be viewed in with the rest of the rules, rather than in isolation.

It's ****e we're having the debate at all, especially at what should be an exciting time.
 
Sir Cheshire Ben said:
There's no such thing as an adult within the scheme as far as pricing goes. It is a same zone price for all regardless of age & status & as a result there are no concessions available.
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That's one way of looking at it. However another way of looking at it is to reduce the price of certain blocks of seats and make them available for senior citizens and children as a concession.

It would appear that the vast majority of Arsenal's seats are only available at adult prices. All City are doing is following their example.
 
Hull City AFC (DMD) said:
It could be argued that allowing additional people to benefit from the ' oncession' rat her than just e icing them would strengthen the club's case rather than knock it over.

It's ****e we're having the debate at all, especially at what should be an exciting time.
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Well no because if everyone is priced the same no one is benefitting. That's just a daft argument.

If it's $10 to ride the train for me and everyone else, we're not all getting a concession.
 
Obadiah said:
That's one way of looking at it. However another way of looking at it is to reduce the price of certain blocks of seats and make them available for senior citizens and children as a concession.

It would appear that the vast majority of Arsenal's seats are only available at adult prices. All City are doing is following their example.
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Arsenal offer concessions. Our new Membership Scheme doesn't.
 
Sir Cheshire Ben said:
A concession is a price that is lower than the normal price. The normal price for each zone has been documented by the club. There are no concessions.
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A concession is what the Premier League say it is unless someone takes them to court. Your definition isn't the only definition and it can include providing seating at a cheaper price in one particular part of the ground.

Children who buy a seat at Arsenal in any part of the ground except the family enclosure have to pay the full adult price for their ticket.
 
Obadiah said:
A concession is what the Premier League say it is unless someone takes them to court. Your definition isn't the only definition and it can include providing seating at a cheaper price in one particular part of the ground.

Children who buy a seat at Arsenal in any part of the ground except the family enclosure have to pay the full adult price for their ticket.
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No it can't, that's not a bloody concession. If the price is available regardless of age, it is not a concession, and it is certainly not being provided to children and OAPs.
 
Zone 1 seats are available in all four corners of the ground, only two of those corners are in the family stand, the other two are in the North and can be bought by adults.

Forgetting those that are being allowed to stay where they are for now, the family stand for for an adult (or adults) with an U18 (or U18's), a pair of pensioners don't qualify, where are their concessions? We're giving concessions to seniors, but only if they sit in the family stand with their grandchildren?

By any reasonable measure, we are not offering concessions to anyone, though knowing Ehab, he'll probably claim that as we're cheaper than Arsenal, we're offering concessions to adults, seniors and kids. <doh>
 
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SydneyTiger14 said:
Well no because if everyone is priced the same no one is benefitting. That's just a daft argument.

If it's $10 to ride the train for me and everyone else, we're not all getting a concession.
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If you get the third class carriage for $7 and you have priority for getting a seat you've been offered a concession. Its up to you whether you pay the $7 or the $10 for the seat.
 
Obadiah said:
If you get the third class carriage for $7 and you have priority for getting a seat you've been offered a concession. Its up to you whether you pay the $7 or the $10 for the seat.
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It's not a concession, it's a different price for a different quality. You really need to brush up on what the term concession means.
 
SydneyTiger14 said:
It's not a concession, it's a different price for a different quality. You really need to brush up on what the term concession means.
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Its a concession if its the same quality carriage then. The Premier League will decide what concession means. My feeling is it will be closer to the club's current scheme than what we want.
 
Obadiah said:
Its a concession if its the same quality carriage then.
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How are the corners of the ground the same quality as the rest of the ground?

They're the cheap area for a reason.

It comes back to my previous example of peak hour travel vs off-peak. If you travel off-peak it's cheaper, but that doesn't make it a concession, it means you're travelling at a time that is worse to travel at (in the context of a normal 9-5 job that is). If a 10 year old kid and a 28 year old woman are on the same train in off-peak and paying the same rate, neither of them is being provided with a concession to travel. Just because they're paying less than a 34 year old bloke travelling in peak hour does not make it a concession.
 
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