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Kittenmittons said:
I spent a lot of time on Friday documenting everything that has been said by Donald and Methven about the funds, with timestamps, links etc. I've cross referenced this with the accounts, and then compared it to what they said earlier.

It's pretty clear that they have loaned themselves a minimum of £35m from the club's money (including £9.6m within weeks of agreeing to pay Ellis Short... £9.6m) to get this deal done. They have subsequently said that any parachute payments have been used as intended, and there is no intention of putting a penny of their own cash in for the foreseeable future.

Donald also says that he proved he had £20m in funds to the EFL above the £5m, but let slip that he still has £20m in funds available. He is refusing to put that back into SAFC.

These are facts. From their own mouths. This is all I was ever going to say. When the accounts are published in 6 months time, I am 90% certain they will make every SAFC fan feel uncomfortable about how much of the club's money has left via Madrox and replaced with debt from Donald to SAFC.

It's bizarre that RTG stopped me saying this.
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Lol, it’s more bizarre this hasn’t been removed from here :)

So they have “loaned” themselves money? Jesus m8 that’s not legal, drawing money from a company would mean they couldn’t pay their creditors, otherwise known as fraud! All the companies are theirs, it is perfectly normal to provide inter company loans, which is all they’ve done. The clubs money is theirs. He had to prove to the elf that he had funds available, unless you’re saying he’s defrauded them as well?

You have to understand you can’t accuse them of doing anything illegal or fraudulent on a message board, that gets the board administrator in as much bother as you. Give it up m8, if gom, who is a fantastic accountant btw, says everything’s fine, then everything’s fine, or if you have these conspiracy theories then at least make them “better” than they made some inter company transfers.
 
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Roppa said:
Lol, it’s more bizarre this hasn’t been removed from here :)

So they have “loaned” themselves money? Jesus m8 that’s not legal, drawing money from a company would mean they couldn’t pay their creditors, otherwise known as fraud! All the companies are theirs, it is perfectly normal to provide inter company loans, which is all they’ve done. The clubs money is theirs. He had to prove to the elf that he had funds available, unless you’re saying he’s defrauded them as well?

You have to understand you can’t accuse them of doing anything illegal or fraudulent on a message board, that gets the board administrator in as much bother as you. Give it up m8, if gom, who is a fantastic accountant btw, says everything’s fine, then everything’s fine, or if you have these conspiracy theories then at least make them “better” than they made some inter company transfers.
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I've always said that I appreciate the likes of Kittenmittons giving his view, always felt he got a lot of stick just because his view of the finances wasn't all rosy. For me we need people like that, whereas I feel GOM (who i like on there to be fair) will always err on the positive. They both obviously know their stuff professionally so there's room for both.

That being said the post about them taking money etc, I'm not surprised it was deleted. Is it libelous? Not sure, but if I ran a website I wouldn't leave it there just in case! Again, that's not to say I don't appreciate the work he's done, all he's doing is trying to make sure the owners aren't taking the piss out of us, and that's fair enough. For any serious claims though you really need irrefutable proof. He's much better holding off on it until the next set of accounts come out then he can see how it looks there, it might all be totally above board
 
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I mean this is literally in the accounts @Roppa - they've also admitted all of this, I don't think you've quite grasped how this works! I've not parsed anything, I've gone by facts alone. I haven't accused them of anything illegal, but they own Madrox, and Madrox has benefited from a payment of £9.6m in the financial year 17-18. Worryingly, they then tried to disguise this in the podcast as 'an accounting error' by 'Angela the finance lady, bless her'. If this was the truth, then like every single other company, they'd have needed to amend it.

The biggest questions are:

  1. Where did the £9.6m go?
  2. When is the parachute money coming back?
If you don't want to know that, I don't know what to say. The way they talked about it a few months ago (that the money won't be coming back) and the way they've framed the next financial year (they won't be putting any money back in) despite trying to sell the club should tell you this is a major financial issue for the club.
 
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I think people are getting overly cautious about all of it. If they say things and then they're backed up by the accounts (or not) then they need to be called out. This isn't about 'legal' or 'illegal', this is all about the simplest of things, doing the right thing for the football club. Can anyone seriously believe that a £9.6m loan of club funds going out via madrox to persons unknown, when the madrox owner has a £9.6m debt to pay is not worthy of at least more of an explanation? And then for them to state a year later that it's an accounting error and isn't a 'loan' but a payment that they didn't adjust in their accounts? This is all worthy of query.

GOM is a fine enough chap, but he is terrified of being blackballed by the club. I think earlier in the summer he (somewhat hopefully) believed he might get access to the Madrox accounts at some point. The fact that hasn't happened by now should tell you everything.
 
Kittenmittons said:
I think people are getting overly cautious about all of it. If they say things and then they're backed up by the accounts (or not) then they need to be called out. This isn't about 'legal' or 'illegal', this is all about the simplest of things, doing the right thing for the football club. Can anyone seriously believe that a £9.6m loan of club funds going out via madrox to persons unknown, when the madrox owner has a £9.6m debt to pay is not worthy of at least more of an explanation? And then for them to state a year later that it's an accounting error and isn't a 'loan' but a payment that they didn't adjust in their accounts? This is all worthy of query.

GOM is a fine enough chap, but he is terrified of being blackballed by the club. I think earlier in the summer he (somewhat hopefully) believed he might get access to the Madrox accounts at some point. The fact that hasn't happened by now should tell you everything.
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Hope there not trying to rob us but who knows maybe MSD guys seen this?

**** knows.
 
Kittenmittons said:
I think people are getting overly cautious about all of it. If they say things and then they're backed up by the accounts (or not) then they need to be called out. This isn't about 'legal' or 'illegal', this is all about the simplest of things, doing the right thing for the football club. Can anyone seriously believe that a £9.6m loan of club funds going out via madrox to persons unknown, when the madrox owner has a £9.6m debt to pay is not worthy of at least more of an explanation? And then for them to state a year later that it's an accounting error and isn't a 'loan' but a payment that they didn't adjust in their accounts? This is all worthy of query.

GOM is a fine enough chap, but he is terrified of being blackballed by the club. I think earlier in the summer he (somewhat hopefully) believed he might get access to the Madrox accounts at some point. The fact that hasn't happened by now should tell you everything.
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I assume you have spoken to GOM at length, you can't really say if he is "terrified" on a forum he doesn't post on
 
Chunksafc said:
I assume you have spoken to GOM at length, you can't really say if he is "terrified" on a forum he doesn't post on
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That was his reason given to me when I challenged him about giving them the benefit of the doubt in June.

Let's not forget this quote from Methven during the RAWA meeting which GOM attended (he asked this question and didn't challenge this characterisation), that should terrify all of us, as it implies we will never see this money again:

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Kittenmittons said:
That was his reason given to me when I challenged him about giving them the benefit of the doubt in June.

Let's not forget this quote from Methven during the RAWA meeting which GOM attended, that should terrify all of us, as it implies we will never see this money again:
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That's your take on it, but you can't really mention GOM as being terrified when he doesn't have the right to reply
 
Kittenmittons said:
That was his reason given to me when I challenged him about giving them the benefit of the doubt in June.

Let's not forget this quote from Methven during the RAWA meeting which GOM attended (he asked this question and didn't challenge this characterisation), that should terrify all of us, as it implies we will never see this money again:

You must log in or register to see images
Click to expand...
Can I check as I don't follow the financial stuff but...CM is admitting to stealing money from our club? Bit stupid that.
 
Kittenmittons said:
I think people are getting overly cautious about all of it. If they say things and then they're backed up by the accounts (or not) then they need to be called out. This isn't about 'legal' or 'illegal', this is all about the simplest of things, doing the right thing for the football club. Can anyone seriously believe that a £9.6m loan of club funds going out via madrox to persons unknown, when the madrox owner has a £9.6m debt to pay is not worthy of at least more of an explanation? And then for them to state a year later that it's an accounting error and isn't a 'loan' but a payment that they didn't adjust in their accounts? This is all worthy of query.

GOM is a fine enough chap, but he is terrified of being blackballed by the club. I think earlier in the summer he (somewhat hopefully) believed he might get access to the Madrox accounts at some point. The fact that hasn't happened by now should tell you everything.
Click to expand...
Have you been in touch with gom?
 
BigPete said:
Hope there not trying to rob us but who knows maybe MSD guys seen this?

**** knows.
Click to expand...

The MSD guys are probably aware of it because Methven said they'd up the asking price to accommodate SD's debt...

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Blond Bombshell said:
This
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You do realise that

1) I don't have the right to reply to GOM on RTG

and

2) Yes, I spoke to GOM and have no problem with him. My characterisation as 'terrified' is not a slight, I'm just saying that he felt that a 'softly softly' approach was best in May. I felt that a more decisive 'we can see this doesn't add up' approach was better.

Up to you which you favour, neither is right or wrong, but I know which one hasn't delivered any results...
 
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Kittenmittons said:
I think people are getting overly cautious about all of it. If they say things and then they're backed up by the accounts (or not) then they need to be called out. This isn't about 'legal' or 'illegal', this is all about the simplest of things, doing the right thing for the football club. Can anyone seriously believe that a £9.6m loan of club funds going out via madrox to persons unknown, when the madrox owner has a £9.6m debt to pay is not worthy of at least more of an explanation? And then for them to state a year later that it's an accounting error and isn't a 'loan' but a payment that they didn't adjust in their accounts? This is all worthy of query.

GOM is a fine enough chap, but he is terrified of being blackballed by the club. I think earlier in the summer he (somewhat hopefully) believed he might get access to the Madrox accounts at some point. The fact that hasn't happened by now should tell you everything.
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No it depends what type of accounts are filed on the public record
 
King Kareoke said:
No it depends what type of accounts are filed on the public record
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SD in May on the RR podcast said that he wanted someone to look through those transactions that were under question in Madrox's accounts and give them the ok. GOM wanted to be that man. They still haven't let him see them. It's October. This isn't about the official accounts we can see now (albeit we can glean something from them) because they will not show anything in detail. This is about SD and CM preaching about their transparency and then not following up.

Again, nothing they have done is illegal, I just don't believe it is the right way to run a football club.
 
Kittenmittons said:
SD in May on the RR podcast said that he wanted someone to look through those transactions that were under question in Madrox's accounts and give them the ok. GOM wanted to be that man. They still haven't let him see them. It's October. This isn't about the official accounts we can see now (albeit we can glean something from them) because they will not show anything in detail. This is about SD and CM preaching about their transparency and then not following up.

Again, nothing they have done is illegal, I just don't believe it is the right way to run a football club.
Click to expand...

Fair do's I misunderstood
 
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