Rosenior Out

[SydneyTiger14]

Out of curiosity, what do you think we're missing in order to make this playing style successful?

What does success mean to you, promotion? Ie - what's the measure for success?

Do you think we should alter the play style to fit what/who we have, or persist with it regardless?

Do you think its possible that perhaps the way we play just isn't that effective or do you believe we could be nearer the top of the table playing this way? Ie - is there a limit to how far we can go playing this way?

Do you think Rosenior already has the players he's asked for this season, or the tools available to be more successful?

Not trying to catch you out, I'm just genuinely curious. For me; the mark of a good manager is one who gets the most out of what he's got. Right now I don't think that's us...

I think a prolific striker makes this side look very different. Even just a fit Delap I genuinely think in front of Philo/Fabiio/Omur makes this side look almost entirely different. For one it gives Giles a head to put his crosses on, two it means that there is so much more space for our mids because Delap was brilliant at driving at teams and putting them on the back foot with his footwork, and three it straightened us up and gave us a focal point. I think at the moment the players look up and see no one making runs or moving for them or giving them an option to play the ball to and that contributes to the slow build up play.

I was saying the other day, I re-watched the Cardiff highlights ahead of us playing them and we were like another team. Even a fit and firing Connolly was making runs behind defences for Allsop to play the ball over the top to, Tufan getting in behind for his goal, we're just not making runs like that anymore.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

I can’t believe I’m the one to say this as I’m very critical of LR but I don’t think he should be sacked yet

Let’s have a bit of perspective

We’re a team that was left to rot for years, we were in League One just 3 years ago signing players on free transfers from the national league and the Austrian second division

I think we’ve all been caught up in the Acun hype, he’s going to come in, sign all the best players for peanuts, get the best manager, and we’re going to get promoted out of one of the hardest leagues in the world within a year and then sell some players for a billion quid profit.

Come on do you really think it would be that easy?

We need to give LR and the club more time to build up bit by bit. If we improve each season then we will get promoted eventually, not everyone can do an Ipswich.

Although it’s frustrating and there’s been some **** results we are improving and I don’t think anyone can deny that.

It doesn't count if it's after mid-day, never mind 2 days late.

 

[Tigerboy98]

Nobody has denied we've improved on last season. The argument from me is simply how far can these tactics actually take us? I think we're limiting ourselves. I'm glad you mentioned Ipswich though - Why exactly couldn't we do an Ipswich? A team that go for it and regularly get their just rewards. My only issie woth Rosenior is that for me, he needs to look at how he's setting us up and make some changes in order to get the most out of the team. If he can do that then great. If not then I think it'll be a matter of time. If it doesn't work out then in my opinion its time that's somewhat wasted. All he needs to do for me is stop sticking so strictly to this plan.

Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see, I think we should only start to worry if we’re not improving. Give him time next season and then make an assessment.

Ipswich are on exception to the rule, whatever they’ve done has worked, maybe next season we do an Ipswich?

 

[Howdentiger2]

Well I guess we’ll have to wait and see, I think we should only start to worry if we’re not improving. Give him time next season and then make an assessment.

Ipswich are on exception to the rule, whatever they’ve done has worked, maybe next season we do an Ipswich?

Maybe we do or maybe we do a Sunderland or Blackburn?

If LR stays then I think we'll know 10 games after the close of the window whether he's has managed to find a solution to our problems. If he hasn't then I think it's very difficult to justify him staying any longer.

As I've said though, I really think whether he's here or not come pre season, all depends how the season finishes and whether Acun/Tan think he has it in him to take the club up.

 

[Tony Angelino]

Maybe we do or maybe we do a Sunderland or Blackburn?

If LR stays then I think we'll know 10 games after the close of the window whether he's has managed to find a solution to our problems. If he hasn't then I think it's very difficult to justify him staying any longer.

As I've said though, I really think whether he's here or not come pre season, all depends how the season finishes and whether Acun/Tan think he has it in him to take the club up.

The problem is (Rosie or whoever) we have no idea how our squad will look after 10 games next season. If we don’t get any of the loans back and greaves and jaden leave then it’s a massive rebuild. We’ll then all be sat on here debating if 10 games is enough given it’s a new team

the question has to be, can Rosie be flexible enough to change his approach etc. ultimately his team will play the same way.
If acun/tan can’t see his style changing then they need to make a change. If they can see him changing, I don’t see how giving him another window and only 10 games will work

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Maybe we do or maybe we do a Sunderland or Blackburn?

If LR stays then I think we'll know 10 games after the close of the window whether he's has managed to find a solution to our problems. If he hasn't then I think it's very difficult to justify him staying any longer.

As I've said though, I really think whether he's here or not come pre season, all depends how the season finishes and whether Acun/Tan think he has it in him to take the club up.

You mention Sunderland but they're in the **** because they were too hasty with sacking Mowbray...

 

[Shark Sports]

Maybe we do or maybe we do a Sunderland or Blackburn?

If LR stays then I think we'll know 10 games after the close of the window whether he's has managed to find a solution to our problems. If he hasn't then I think it's very difficult to justify him staying any longer.

As I've said though, I really think whether he's here or not come pre season, all depends how the season finishes and whether Acun/Tan think he has it in him to take the club up.

Surely Tan is due to come under some pressure too, we've effectively had 3 windows under Acun and 2 of those have been botched. They've all said repeatedly that recruitment is a team decision

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Surely Tan is due to come under some pressure too, we've effectively had 3 windows under Acun and 2 of those have been botched. They've all said repeatedly that recruitment is a team decision

Yes, the thought has occurred to me too.. Tan gets a bit of a free ride in all of this, when he's the one pulling it all together. Rosenior is just the Head Coach after all.

 

[Gone For A Walk]

The fact is, they are all learning as they go. Acun, Tan, Rosenior.
Maybe a good reason not to have hired an apprentice? Especially one who thinks he has some magic formula that nobody else has, and who won't budge (a good sign of worldly inexperience).

 

[Shark Sports]

Yes, the thought has occurred to me too.. Tan gets a bit of a free ride in all of this, when he's the one pulling it all together. Rosenior is just the Head Coach after all.

Plus more and more accounts are coming out for clubs last season and our £23m wage bill, isn't top 6 or anywhere close, it's not looking like top half either. Birmingham's was £29m, Ipswich's was £19m in L1 plus they spent £8m on fees, Burnley's was £54m, Cardiff's was £22m, West Brom's was £46m, (it'll be down this year as parachute reduction but it'll still be substantially more than ours) yet I hear talk of the job Coberan is doing on a budget!

 

[Howdentiger2]

Surely Tan is due to come under some pressure too, we've effectively had 3 windows under Acun and 2 of those have been botched. They've all said repeatedly that recruitment is a team decision

It's a good and probably fair point, but everything I've heard this season re summer and winter windows, is that tan etc delivered what LR asked for and that he had final say on whether a player came in or not. How much truth there is in that I'm sure we'll never really know.

If it is all/mostly tan/recruitment team then the head coaches job is to get the best out of the squad that's assembled for them..... Ours isn't doing that.

 

[Howdentiger2]

Plus more and more accounts are coming out for clubs last season and our £23m wage bill, isn't top 6 or anywhere close, it's not looking like top half either. Birmingham's was £29m, Ipswich's was £19m in L1 plus they spent £8m on fees, Burnley's was £54m, Cardiff's was £22m, West Brom's was £46m, (it'll be down this year as parachute reduction but it'll still be substantially more than ours) yet I hear talk of the job Coberan is doing on a budget!

This season though, it's certainly larger then last season's £23m

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Budgets are misleading for all sorts of reasons. Not sure why some keep harping on about them. Legacy contracts. Unwanted players on the books. Loans (in & out). Etc etc.
What's more logical is looking at the talent a squad has within it and then considering whether or not it's being made best used of.
In our case, looking at our attacking talent of Tufan, Traore, Philogene, Carvalho, Omur, Delap (when fit), Connolly, Zaroury plus 2 absolutely wasted signings in Sharp and Ohio, and with the quality of Seri and Morton behind them. I'd say it's a big fat no.

 

[SydneyTiger14]

It's a good and probably fair point, but everything I've heard this season re summer and winter windows, is that tan etc delivered what LR asked for and that he had final say on whether a player came in or not. How much truth there is in that I'm sure we'll never really know.

If it is all/mostly tan/recruitment team then the head coaches job is to get the best out of the squad that's assembled for them..... Ours isn't doing that.

Issue is I'm sure Rosenior had never heard of Ohio, Pandur, Omur (before the Turkey trip), etc. before they were presented to him. While LR is asking for players and they're being delivered, I'm sure LR is asking for a player of a certain type, and he's being given an Ohio, or an Omur and being told 'this player fits what you're after'. While plenty of players will be specifically players LR is familiar with (Connolly, Delap, Allsop, etc.) there's plenty that aren't. I think of the ones that aren't, there's more misses than hits.

 

[Howdentiger2]

Issue is I'm sure Rosenior had never heard of Ohio, Pandur, Omur (before the Turkey trip), etc. before they were presented to him. While LR is asking for players and they're being delivered, I'm sure LR is asking for a player of a certain type, and he's being given an Ohio, or an Omur and being told 'this player fits what you're after'. While plenty of players will be specifically players LR is familiar with (Connolly, Delap, Allsop, etc.) there's plenty that aren't. I think of the ones that aren't, there's more misses than hits.

Yes he's not going to know all when they're presented to him ( doubt any head coach/manager does, that's what scouts and recruitment teams are for ) but He's still having final say as to whether or not they come into the club.

He's still not getting the best out of the squad though is he, wether they're his choices or players he's chosen after they are presented to him and that's the reason we're missing out on the playoffs as it stands

 

[Gone For A Walk]

Issue is I'm sure Rosenior had never heard of Ohio, Pandur, Omur (before the Turkey trip), etc. before they were presented to him. While LR is asking for players and they're being delivered, I'm sure LR is asking for a player of a certain type, and he's being given an Ohio, or an Omur and being told 'this player fits what you're after'. While plenty of players will be specifically players LR is familiar with (Connolly, Delap, Allsop, etc.) there's plenty that aren't. I think of the ones that aren't, there's more misses than hits.

He'll have known all about Ohio and Sharp for sure.
He also knew all about Connolly, and Allsop (not wanting to get back into the Connolly debate, and with Allsop he's ok as a back up, but should never have been brought in by him as our No 1).

 

[SydneyTiger14]

Yes he's not going to know all when they're presented to him ( doubt any head coach/manager does, that's what scouts and recruitment teams are for ) but He's still having final say as to whether or not they come into the club.

He's still not getting the best out of the squad though is he, wether they're his choices or players he's chosen after they are presented to him and that's the reason we're missing out on the playoffs as it stands

Which is where the responsibility and judgement of those recruitment teams happens.. as I said, when it's a player LR knows well (Delap, Connolly, etc.) there's a lot more hits than misses (Ebiowei the big miss, crowd is split on Allsop but I think he was a big step up from Ingram for a snip of a price) as opposed to Tan's targets (Sinik, Ally, Lokilo, Tetteh, Oscar, Traore, etc.).

 

[SydneyTiger14]

He'll have known all about Ohio and Sharp for sure.
He also knew all about Connolly, and Allsop (not wanting to get back into the Connolly debate, and with Allsop he's ok as a back up, but should never have been brought in by him as our No 1).

Why would he have known all about Ohio? How many of us had heard of him? Just because he was a youth player in the two Manchester academies..

Of course everyone knows Sharp, I'm not suggesting he knew none of our incomings. He knew all about Carvalho too..

Connolly the loan signing was reasonable for a month and scored two goals before getting injured and the club was happy enough with that to offer him a year deal, and he had the most prolific spell of his senior career in the first half of the season before injuries and personal issues got in the way. 8 goals is probably slightly unders for what we paid for him, but it's a hell of a lot better value than Sinik, Ally, etc.

Allsop was a 200k signing that was clearly never intended as the long term number one, but it was a short term solution that worked out very well.

 

[Tigerboy98]

Maybe we do or maybe we do a Sunderland or Blackburn?

If LR stays then I think we'll know 10 games after the close of the window whether he's has managed to find a solution to our problems. If he hasn't then I think it's very difficult to justify him staying any longer.

As I've said though, I really think whether he's here or not come pre season, all depends how the season finishes and whether Acun/Tan think he has it in him to take the club up.

Yep there’s that risk also! I agree give him 10 games or so and see where we’re at, that’s results and performances.

I think either having Delap back or a striker that is not 60 years old will make a big difference too.

 

[springtiger]

Yes he's not going to know all when they're presented to him ( doubt any head coach/manager does, that's what scouts and recruitment teams are for ) but He's still having final say as to whether or not they come into the club.

He's still not getting the best out of the squad though is he, wether they're his choices or players he's chosen after they are presented to him and that's the reason we're missing out on the playoffs as it stands

Having read yours and counter posts I’ve just twigged today one main point DOH , and that is you sum up ‘he’s not go the best from this squad’ I’d agree based on the collective quality and work rate coupled with technical skill. One mitigating factor is Delap missing but I would have expected us to get a few more draws rather than close losses . In which case we would still be in closer touch. Connolly getting poleaxed , one freaky goal for Watford ( ironically Delap was a little culpable) and Mondays silly late penalty have all contributed . You could look at Ipswich’s late good play or good fortune it’s been the opposite .
Final point is if you get men around the ball wherever you are on the pitch you will either get or retain possession , knock downs , half hearted tackles , loose control are all overcome . That means freedom to get or be there , I think our players are allowed in certain areas under certain circumstances it appears . Many do play this way so you’ll not go down but you will have to have someone special to go up.