Rodgers Sacked

[carlthejackal]

We seem to be at cross purposes. I'm not saying it's the only or immediate problem. As has been discussed to death with general agreement; a lack of quality leadership and clarity of direction is more responsible for where we have ended up after these 3,years. Be it the manager, the committee, the scouts etc.

But even if we get a quality manager in, I don't think the strategy FSG imposed will get them what they say they want simply because there are 4 teams that are able to pay w/c wages and/or attract the likes of Sanchez because of consistent CL..

I'd be very happy to be wrong of course. If a new manager comes in and gets us 4th or above with the same policy in place I'll do a wee dance..

The policy is sound (ish) in financial terms. Still spent £300m not getting very far.

But this thing about acquiring young enough players rather than those at their peak and therefore on the way down means that we will always get players who are yet to reach their peak and once they reach that peak (at 30ish) they need to be sold otherwise they lose their resale value. Which means we never get the full benefit (Suarez, Sterling,) of our top players at their peak and we will rarely get a great team.

Basically we have been programmed to be a 5th - 7th team. Occasionally we will overachieve and underachieve to be outside the expected range of positions.

 

[mighty_stevie_g]

We really shouldn't be arguing amongst ourselves. We're all in the same ****ing boat.

Agreed. Depressing reading through this.

Don't even think results will change the majority of peoples made up minds unfortunately (not that I see results coming!)

See this dragging for a long time if i'm honest because I do not see FSG pulling the trigger anytime soon.

 

[DirtyFrank]

You had your noses in the CL trough for circa 15 years.

When it was pushed out by the new kid on the block (City) then you desperately tried to nudge your way back in, spending at levels that the business simply couldn't sustain without the lost revenue it was chasing so hard to regain.

Rodgers got you back on the gravy train, but then promptly steered you straight back off the tracks, after spending a Kings ransom on ****e. You should be more than capable of competing on a level playing field with the likes of Arsenal, but you keep making poor decisions. I think the finger pointing at the owners is just plain wrong. They've provided more than enough resource to get you to where you want to be.

Didn't say the amount of resources was small..we agree that it's been badly directed.

And I'm not witch hunting the owners . They rescued us, built up a very good commercial strategy. Got our debt down to 20% made the right decisions on the ground.

Just as long as their transfer strategy doesn't remain too inflexible. The wages they offered Suarez suggests they aren't that bad but ...

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

We seem to be at cross purposes. I'm not saying it's the only or immediate problem. As has been discussed to death with general agreement; a lack of quality leadership and clarity of direction is more responsible for where we have ended up after these 3,years. Be it the manager, the committee, the scouts etc.

But even if we get a quality manager in, I don't think the strategy FSG imposed will get them what they say they want simply because there are 4 teams that are able to pay w/c wages and/or attract the likes of Sanchez because of consistent CL..

I'd be very happy to be wrong of course. If a new manager comes in and gets us 4th or above with the same policy in place I'll do a wee dance..

Couldn't agree more. The strategy that put BR in place and allowed us to spend on the players we have is either wrong or been executed poorly. We don't don't which because we don't know the strategy. That said, BR hasn't made it easy for himself by playing 3 at the back against Carlisle and Norwich, a tactic that got found out last year, playing people out of position (always and consistently). He's not top 4 material as a boss and if i'm honest, I don't think he's top 10.

An old boss of mine used to tell me to hire slowly but sack quickly. In other words, make sure you hire the right people and make sure the people who do damage to your organisation go before to much damage is done. I do hope that FSG have a plan or I fear that the damage may take years to repair!

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

The policy is sound (ish) in financial terms. Still spent £300m not getting very far.

But this thing about acquiring young enough players rather than those at their peak and therefore on the way down means that we will always get players who are yet to reach their peak and once they reach that peak (at 30ish) they need to be sold otherwise they lose their resale value. Which means we never get the full benefit (Suarez, Sterling,) of our top players at their peak and we will rarely get a great team.

Basically we have been programmed to be a 5th - 7th team. Occasionally we will overachieve and underachieve to be outside the expected range of positions.

I disagree - Lallana Lambert Lovren are over25. But they've flopped. And now have Milner but he hasn't added much

Age is should not play a factor - it's about quality.

 

[Tobes]

Couldn't agree more. The strategy that put BR in place and allowed us to spend on the players we have is either wrong or been executed poorly. We don't don't which because we don't know the strategy. That said, BR hasn't made it easy for himself by playing 3 at the back against Carlisle and Norwich, a tactic that got found out last year, playing people out of position (always and consistently). He's not top 4 material as a boss and if i'm honest, I don't think he's top 10.

An old boss of mine used to tell me to hire slowly but sack quickly. In other words, make sure you hire the right people and make sure the people who do damage to your organisation go before to much damage is done. I do hope that FSG have a plan or I fear that the damage may take years to repair!

He'll never have a job that comes even remotely close to one the size of Liverpool again. He'll bob around the game and end up in the lower reaches of the pyramid.

 

[Jimmy Squarefoot]

Also, Dortmund at Madrid and juventus have a fraction of our budget but achieve more than us. You can exclude domestic success and they've all been in the CL final in recent history.

We've been wasteful and we shouldn't use money as an excuse for not competing.

 

[Jürgenmeiʃter]

He'll never have a job that comes even remotely close to one the size of Liverpool again. He'll bob around the game and end up in the lower reaches of the pyramid.

Everton?

 

[mighty_stevie_g]

He'll never have a job that comes even remotely close to one the size of Liverpool again. He'll bob around the game and end up in the lower reaches of the pyramid.

Might have a few quid on BR next Sunderland manager. 66/1 best ive seen

 

[Tobes]

Also, Dortmund at Madrid and juventus have a fraction of our budget but achieve more than us. You can exclude domestic success and they've all been in the CL final in recent history.

We've been wasteful and we shouldn't use money as an excuse for not competing.

It's as if having that as a caveat for the failure makes it easier to swallow imo.

It's simply not true though.

It'll be interesting to see who they bring in. I don't think they can risk another failure, as they can't fund the business forever, they need it to be become self sustaining, therefore I reckon they'll go for a 'name' this time around. I'm just hoping they pick a Sven rather than a Klopp

 

[carlthejackal]

I disagree - Lallana Lambert Lovren are over25. But they've flopped. And now have Milner but he hasn't added much

Age is should not play a factor - it's about quality.

No disagreement from me.

Of course it is about quality. And it should aways be about quality whether young or old. But the policy of spending big on a player with resale value and spending little on older players is flawed if you want to win things or be top 4.

An example: Van Persie woild never have been bought by us, even for a fraction of his price yet he was THE key to the mancs getting that title with a team full of dross. And in the same vein as I said in another thread, we are not able to get Schweinsteiger even if he was willing to come here as we would not pay £8-10m for him because of his age. Quality and not age should be the determining factor.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

He'll never have a job that comes even remotely close to one the size of Liverpool again. He'll bob around the game and end up in the lower reaches of the pyramid.

If that happens, his pay off will probably be more than he's ever gunna earn again

You know, I think he's a good coach. He'd make a great #2 at a big club imo.....When he leaves, I hope he finds his feet and rediscovers where he wants to be and succeeds

 

[Tobes]

If that happens, his pay off will probably be more than he's ever gunna earn again

You know, I think he's a good coach. He'd make a great #2 at a big club imo.....When he leaves, I hope he finds his feet and rediscovers where he wants to be and succeeds

No idea mate, maybe he is, I've not heard anyone extoling his virtues in that regard though.

 

[FedLadSonOfAnfield]

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Brendan Rodgers is still in place as manager of Liverpool FC

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

No disagreement from me.

Of course it is about quality. And it should aways be about quality whether young or old. But the policy of spending big on a player with resale value and spending little on older players is flawed if you want to win things or be top 4.

An example: Van Persie woild never have been bought by us, even for a fraction of his price yet he was THE key to the mancs getting that title with a team full of dross. And in the same vein as I said in another thread, we are not able to get Schweinsteiger even if he was willing to come here as we would not pay £8-10m for him because of his age. Quality and not age should be the determining factor.

Hmmm.....this is a difficult one. Utd have much deeper pockets than we do so can afford to do this. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I actually agree..... just that as a business/financial business decision, I can understand FSG's thought process.

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

No idea mate, maybe he is, I've not heard anyone extoling his virtues in that regard though.

The players themselves have said it. Even Agger, who hated how he couldn't give him a straight answer, rated him as a coach.....but there's a big difference between being a good coach and a good top manager/leader. I think Martinez may fall into the same category btw.

 

[carlthejackal]

Hmmm.....this is a difficult one. Utd have much deeper pockets than we do so can afford to do this. I'm not saying that you're wrong, I actually agree..... just that as a business/financial business decision, I can understand FSG's thought process.

At a very basic level that policy seems to make sense. But if you look at it broadly and consider all the implications (financial, global, marketing, reputation long term, footballing, etc) looking at quality and paying for it whether young or old would make sense if it brings success to the club.

After all £300m spent proves that the policy is flawed and that we need to see the wood for the trees.

I've said in an earlier thread (at #49)
http://www.not606.com/threads/the-big-question-whats-worse.311916/page-3

 

[SIR_KENNY_KLOPP_KING]

At a very basic level that policy seems to make sense. But if you look at it broadly and consider all the implications (financial, global, marketing, reputation long term, footballing, etc) looking at quality and paying for it whether young or old would make sense if it brings success to the club.

After all £300m spent proves that the policy is flawed and that we need to see the wood for the trees.

I've said in an earlier thread:
http://www.not606.com/threads/the-big-question-whats-worse.311916/page-3

Like I said, I agree. Getting the right balance into the squad (not just the team).

However, I suspect that it would take FSG to tear up their entire business model to do this and i'm not sure that they're willing to do this......and this make me nervous as I don't see any big name coming into the club until they change their tune (or sell)

 

[Jürgenmeiʃter]

‘I’ve never been able to say this in public before but I was seriously concerned that we thought we could blow Chelsea away,’ Gerrard wrote in his autobiography, ‘My Story’.

‘I sensed an over-confidence in Brendan’s team talks. We played into Chelsea’s hands. I feared it then and I know it now.’


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/25/steve...emier-league-title-bid-5407645/#ixzz3mkyu8Ff4

 

[carlthejackal]

‘I’ve never been able to say this in public before but I was seriously concerned that we thought we could blow Chelsea away,’ Gerrard wrote in his autobiography, ‘My Story’.

‘I sensed an over-confidence in Brendan’s team talks. We played into Chelsea’s hands. I feared it then and I know it now.’


Read more: http://metro.co.uk/2015/09/25/steve...emier-league-title-bid-5407645/#ixzz3mkyu8Ff4

This does not surprise me at all. I said it at the time: all we needed was a draw. When Jose started sitting back I said "Great! mssion accomplished!". I was horrified to see that our players were fighting with Jose to speed up the game. I thought: "Did Rodgers realise that it was Chelsea who need that win not us?".

It was overconfidence over pragmatism from Rodgers. A point was all we needed. Palace would be no big hurdle as we showed with a quick 3-0 lead. Only drew because we were chasing some some silly scoreline.

It was one of the biggest regrets of Gerrard. And it was a massive lost opportunity.