Rodgers Sacked

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Players like Benteke and Mario aren't particularly mobile but I wouldn't call them lazy (although I probably have in the past). It's not as if they don't move around on purpose - it's just their style of play, it's how they've been taught to play the game - to use their height and strength and let the ball come to them rather than chasing it.

It's like lumping long balls into Messi and Suarez - they will struggle because it's simply not their style.

Now Benteke will need to change because we need a mobile forward who will press and press. Right now, he's not mobile and his running/movement is poor but if there's anyone who can develop him, it's Klopp.
 
Lucaaas said:
I bet Jimmy will be way more lenient with Klopp too.
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I was actually lenient with Rodgers when he came in because I believed in his philosophy and was willing to give it time to work.

If you want, we could have been more lenient towards Rodgers and let him continue?
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
I was actually lenient with Rodgers when he came in because I believed in his philosophy and was willing to give it time to work.

If you want, we could have been more lenient towards Rodgers and let him continue?
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Nope, he got the time he asked for and couldn't do it. We needed the change even if only from a psychological point of view. Losing the league like we did broke more than Gerrards heart, I believe it broke a young inexperienced managers main attribute: belief in himself and that spread to each player remaining and joining.

Time for the new guy. Clean slate for all remaining players , remaining backroom staff, even FSG. Everyone gets to prove himself once more. Personally my patience will only last the three years with Klopp as it did with Brendan because that's the time he will be given in his contract. Some of the players won't get the same time with me simply because they get a second chance that managers don't.
 
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Diego said:
It's not laziness, there is an art to it.
Some strikers can become invisible for 10-20 mins at a time, which miraculously finds them in space in the right place at the right time.
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I agree with this.
Some strikers feign a lack of interest and fool defenders into switching off momentarily- and that can be enough to give them an advantage.
It's a bit of an irritating style to fans who like to see their players graft, but can be very effective.
If you're apparently "lazy" but score a ****load of goals, how can that be a bad thing?
 
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saintanton said:
I agree with this.
Some strikers feign a lack of interest and fool defenders into switching off momentarily- and that can be enough to give them an advantage.
It's a bit of an irritating style to fans who like to see their players graft, but can be very effective.
If you're apparently "lazy" but score a ****load of goals, how can that be a bad thing?
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Exactly - I think we'd all love to have someone like the Brazillian Ronaldo and the current Ronaldo. Neither were 'hard workers'.

I think we were spoilt with Suarez and we now expect every striker to be similar.
 
Diego said:
It's not laziness, there is an art to it.
Some strikers can become invisible for 10-20 mins at a time, which miraculously finds them in space in the right place at the right time.
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Going missing for 10-20mins is different to not giving a **** for ninety!
 
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Players like Benteke and Mario aren't particularly mobile but I wouldn't call them lazy (although I probably have in the past). It's not as if they don't move around on purpose - it's just their style of play, it's how they've been taught to play the game - to use their height and strength and let the ball come to them rather than chasing it.

It's like lumping long balls into Messi and Suarez - they will struggle because it's simply not their style.

Now Benteke will need to change because we need a mobile forward who will press and press. Right now, he's not mobile and his running/movement is poor but if there's anyone who can develop him, it's Klopp.
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Balotelli is the epitome of a lazy footballer. Ask any player or coach who's ever worked with him. Putting him in the same envelope as Benteke is a nonsense
 
saintanton said:
I agree with this.
Some strikers feign a lack of interest and fool defenders into switching off momentarily- and that can be enough to give them an advantage.
It's a bit of an irritating style to fans who like to see their players graft, but can be very effective.
If you're apparently "lazy" but score a ****load of goals, how can that be a bad thing?
Click to expand...
Jimmy Squarefoot said:
Exactly - I think we'd all love to have someone like the Brazillian Ronaldo and the current Ronaldo. Neither were 'hard workers'.

I think we were spoilt with Suarez and we now expect every striker to be similar.
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There is a difference between not helping your team and being lazy.

The likes of Mario and Berbatov are not team players. They are lazy batards who couldn't give a **** about the team. they don't help out defensively, they don't cut out the lines, the don't even make movement when we have possession, they only come alive when the ball is at their feet. They choose not to do any of that. That is lazy!

Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler, Alan Shearer, etc weren't a hard workers but they scored **** loads of goals (and I love Robbie to bits). What's the difference? They made themselves available off the ball, they cut out the space / lines and if the opportunity was there, they tried to defend too. They didn't do it all the game, they just did it when it was appropriate (in their mind). This is not lazy or hard working, it is being part of the team.

What annoys me is this mindset that when someone says hard working they have to run constantly for ninety minutes like Suarez, Tevez, Rooney etc do. that is bullshit. They are great players and you'll never turn that work ethic down but that is not the norm. That is not the expectation.


Plus, as I said above, why is it a case of one or the other? Its as stupid as the entertaining football vs winning things argument. Why not both FFS?
 
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Gerrez said:
There is a difference between not helping your team and being lazy.

The likes of Mario and Berbatov are not team players. They are lazy batards who couldn't give a **** about the team. they don't help out defensively, they don't cut out the lines, the don't even make movement when we have possession, they only come alive when the ball is at their feet. They choose not to do any of that. That is lazy!

Andy Cole, Robbie Fowler, Alan Shearer, etc weren't a hard workers but they scored **** loads of goals (and I love Robbie to bits). What's the difference? They made themselves available off the ball, they cut out the space / lines and if the opportunity was there, they tried to defend too. They didn't do it all the game, they just did it when it was appropriate (in their mind). This is not lazy or hard working, it is being part of the team.

What annoys me is this mindset that when someone says hard working they have to run constantly for ninety minutes like Suarez, Tevez, Rooney etc do. that is bullshit. They are great players and you'll never turn that work ethic down but that is not the norm. That is not the expectation.


Plus, as I said above, why is it a case of one or the other? Its as stupid as the entertaining football vs winning things argument. Why not both FFS?
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It doesn't have to be a case of one or the other- but we have to accept that there are a variety of personalities and styles amongst footballers, and in the end it's their results that matter.

I like team players as much as you do. My point was more that there's a difference in appearing to be lazy on the pitch, and actually being a lazy and self-centred individual. The latter attitude will be very apparent to the coaching staff and, imo, is the more likely reason that some players are used less than others, rather than the mindless favouritism that some fans always want to believe in.
A languid style on the pitch can be very effective for the reasons already discussed, and doesn't necessarily mean a can't-be-arsed attitude.
It's up to the coaches to decide whether or not a player is pulling his weight.
 
saintanton said:
It doesn't have to be a case of one or the other- but we have to accept that there are a variety of personalities and styles amongst footballers, and in the end it's their results that matter.

I like team players as much as you do. My point was more that there's a difference in appearing to be lazy on the pitch, and actually being a lazy and self-centred individual. The latter attitude will be very apparent to the coaching staff and, imo, is the more likely reason that some players are used less than others, rather than the mindless favouritism that some fans always want to believe in.
A languid style on the pitch can be very effective for the reasons already discussed, and doesn't necessarily mean a can't-be-arsed attitude.
It's up to the coaches to decide whether or not a player is pulling his weight.
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Agreed. However, I am also aware that this conversation started after I said the word lazy. I only use the word lazy to describe players such as Balotelli and Berbatov. I won't use to describe others such as Sturridge and Coutinho because they both do their bit defensively (and it is only a bit) but they also put a lot of effort in when we have the ball.

I think a lot of people only think of the defensive side when judging laziness (in the broader term) too, I think of their whole game. I wouldn't be as bothered about Mario being lazy if he showed effort when we had possession but he doesn't. He only moves when he's got the ball.

I will never accept a player that fits in with my opinion of a lazy player (does ****all bar when they have the ball)
 
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Gerrez said:
Agreed. However, I am also aware that this conversation started after I said the word lazy. I only use the word lazy to describe players such as Balotelli and Berbatov. I won't use to describe others such as Sturridge and Coutinho because they both do their bit defensively (and it is only a bit) but they also put a lot of effort in when we have the ball.

I think a lot of people only think of the defensive side when judging laziness (in the broader term) too, I think of their whole game. I wouldn't be as bothered about Mario being lazy if he showed effort when we had possession but he doesn't. He only moves when he's got the ball.

I will never accept a player that fits in with my opinion of a lazy player (does ****all bar when they have the ball)
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I agree, for the most part.
Rodgers got Mario to work harder than I can remember seeing him do in the past, but the end product still wasn't there. Not much the coach can do about that, except drop him- which is what he did.
Could Klopp get more out of Balo? Possibly.
Do I want him to try? Not really, that horse has bolted imo, and I'd rather see the new manager work with what we have now, until such time as he can add his own choices.
 
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saintanton said:
I agree, for the most part.
Rodgers got Mario to work harder than I can remember seeing him do in the past, but the end product still wasn't there. Not much the coach can do about that, except drop him- which is what he did.
Could Klopp get more out of Balo? Possibly.
Do I want him to try? Not really, that horse has bolted imo, and I'd rather see the new manager work with what we have now, until such time as he can add his own choices.
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I can't argue against Mario working harder than he's done before but it was in maybe two games only it still wasn't to an acceptable level imo. However, I will accept that my dislike for Mario may come into it too <laugh>

I'd never blame the manager for a player not working either. It is the players choice.

I don't buy into the theory that the manager tells a player exactly how to play. A manager informs the player what he'd like them to do but every player is an individula that is required to make their own decisions on the pitch. Can you ever see a manager telling a player he doesn't need to work hard or help his team? However, I will blame the manager for continuously picking that player though, that's just encourage such behaviour.
 
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johnsonsbaby said:
Nothing to do with whether he's lazy or not [debatable for me!] but stuff like this endears him to me [he's a Milan player at the time not a Liverpool player]

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Fair enough and I truly appreciate that too but there are many of us on here the avoid that rag, do we all deserve to wear the Liverpool shirt?

[HASHTAG]#dothetalkingonthepitch[/HASHTAG]
 
Gerrez said:
Fair enough and I truly appreciate that too but there are many of us on here the avoid that rag, do we all deserve to wear the Liverpool shirt?

[HASHTAG]#dothetalkingonthepitch[/HASHTAG]
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I don't agree fully with you on Mario but I respect your opinion on him.

I just posted the video because from some peoples comments [not on this thread but generally since we signed him] you'd think he was the devil incarnate. He's not. He's a very immature individual but he has a big heart - none of which helps him on the pitch <laugh>
 
johnsonsbaby said:
I don't agree fully with you on Mario but I respect your opinion on him.

I just posted the video because from some peoples comments [not on this thread but generally since we signed him] you'd think he was the devil incarnate. He's not. He's a very immature individual but he has a big heart - none of which helps him on the pitch <laugh>
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Agreed.
 
Dirtyfrank said:
Liverpool is a good club but the amazing fans and amazing team make it special!YNWA you guys can do it.You don't need help❤️

Mario tweeted this yesterday.
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the bottom two were apparently deleted and Mario claims he was referring to Italy <doh>
 
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