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Treble said:
Because that Chelsea had just won the league. They fell out with Mourinho and their star players downed tools. After he left, they improved and went back to how they were for the second half of the season. Look at Hazard today, compare that to last season, then compare that to the season before.

I don't think spending has anything to do with it to be honest. The price doesn't guarantee immediate success. Pogba is a quality player, as is Mkhytarian. Neither has suddenly turned to ****. Same with Jose. They're all far too good not to turn it around. But even if they don't you can't jusge them after 3 months. People were quick to write off Vidic and Evra after their first 6 months when tbf both were shocking.
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Joining this late but totally disagree. it's down to contes good management.

The 2nd half of the season we did improve under hiddink but we were still pretty bad. When hiddink took us over, we won 8, drew 11 and lost 3 which extrapolated to a 38 game season would have us in 8th, same points as pool.

What Conte has done is change the formation to suit us, dropped the underperforming players like fabregas, terry (through injury), ivanovic and played players in their proper position. You can say we won the league but again that was down to a great team effort and the manager. Last season we were the worst we could have been and looked a side much worse than what you have had under LVG and Moyes
 
BobbyD said:
Joining this late but totally disagree. it's down to contes good management.

The 2nd half of the season we did improve under hiddink but we were still pretty bad. When hiddink took us over, we won 8, drew 11 and lost 3 which extrapolated to a 38 game season would have us in 8th, same points as pool.

What Conte has done is change the formation to suit us, dropped the underperforming players like fabregas, terry (through injury), ivanovic and played players in their proper position. You can say we won the league but again that was down to a great team effort and the manager. Last season we were the worst we could have been and looked a side much worse than what you have had under LVG and Moyes
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So you're not totally disagreeing then?

We agree virtually the same side had won the league months earlier? You agree the very same chelsea players downed tools the following season? You agree they did improve after Hiddink came in. Where you disagree is by how much which is a fair point.

But none of that changes the fact you already had a very good proven set of players, to which Conte's been able to work with, plus a few additions. We have absolutely no known quantity for what he would've accomplished after 10 games at United. So the comparison is a dud.

As for what Conte has achieved so far, it's very commendable, very impressive, but as I said to you on the Chelsea board he's nowhere near been tested enough after 10 games. I also quoted you Scolari as a prime example of that.
 
Treble said:
Yeh that doesn't dispell the very proven notion that managers do need time. Conte's done well, but this wasn't a bad Chelsea side he inherited tbf and that was seen in the second half of last season. I take your point though, Jose should be doing better.

So you're not totally disagreeing then?

We agree virtually the same side had won the league months earlier? You agree the very same chelsea players downed tools the following season? You agree they did improve after Hiddink came in. Where you disagree is by how much which is a fair point.

But none of that changes the fact you already had a very good proven set of players, to which Conte's been able to work with, plus a few additions. We have absolutely no known quantity for what he would've accomplished after 10 games at United. So the comparison is a dud.

As for what Conte has achieved so far, it's very commendable, very impressive, but as I said to you on the Chelsea board he's nowhere near been tested enough after 10 games. I also quoted you Scolari as a prime example of that.
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I might be misinterpreting you but you are equating the team not being bad because they had won the title 2 years beforehand. I disagree with that.

Obviously it's bad is a relative term. They aren't sunderland bad but compared to our rivals at the top of the table, at the start of the season no one would have said this chelsea team is good. Most people i have read on not606, the pundits, the bookies did not have chelsea in the top 4 and to me that would indicate the team was bad relative to the others.

You then moved onto the hiddink taking over and the squad reverting to form (i.e. they were playing for their manager so were back to the title winning form of the prior year). Of course we improved as we'd have been relegated if we didn't but we were still crap. We would have got 8th spot with Pool. Now obviously this isn't 'bad' for a middle sized club but that is a disaster and **** for clubs like chelsea and united. So either our players are ****, or hiddink was **** or a bit of both. That's not to say we don't have some classy players no one would have said chelsea have a good team prior to what has happened this season.

I've wrote all this and i can't even remember what i'm debating about <laugh>.

Think i'm debating that we were a bad side and i stand by that (relegation under mourinho, 8th spot with hiddink) and that conte has suddenly massively improved us and made us not a bad side :p

I agree there is a long way to go and he might turn out ****, but i am liking what i am seeing (likewise you will give mourinho time but it's not looking great at the moment under jose. His prolonged poor form, his moody demeanour etc etc)
 
BobbyD said:
I might be misinterpreting you but you are equating the team not being bad because they had won the title 2 years beforehand. I disagree with that.

Obviously it's bad is a relative term. They aren't sunderland bad but compared to our rivals at the top of the table, at the start of the season no one would have said this chelsea team is good. Most people i have read on not606, the pundits, the bookies did not have chelsea in the top 4 and to me that would indicate the team was bad relative to the others.

You then moved onto the hiddink taking over and the squad reverting to form (i.e. they were playing for their manager so were back to the title winning form of the prior year). Of course we improved as we'd have been relegated if we didn't but we were still crap. We would have got 8th spot with Pool. Now obviously this isn't 'bad' for a middle sized club but that is a disaster and **** for clubs like chelsea and united. So either our players are ****, or hiddink was **** or a bit of both. That's not to say we don't have some classy players no one would have said chelsea have a good team prior to what has happened this season.

I've wrote all this and i can't even remember what i'm debating about <laugh>.

Think i'm debating that we were a bad side and i stand by that (relegation under mourinho, 8th spot with hiddink) and that conte has suddenly massively improved us and made us not a bad side :p

I agree there is a long way to go and he might turn out ****, but i am liking what i am seeing (likewise you will give mourinho time but it's not looking great at the moment under jose. His prolonged poor form, his moody demeanour etc etc)
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Bobby the reason people were saying Chelsea were out was for 2 reasons. Firstly bcos your players attitude was under question, and secondly to kick a dog when it's down.

What we've seen is that with a few tweaks of an already title winning side, you're back to where you were. That shouldnt belittle what Conte's done but it highlights you already had a decent set of players for him to work with and tweak.

You say they won the league 2 seasons ago but what changed last season as far as your competition is concerned? Arsenal did **** all, City were wet, we were awful. Leicester won the league which tells us enough about the rest.

To say Mourinho should be able to make as effective/rapid a change in performance as Conte at Chelsea given the starting point for each seems unrealistic. I can accept Mourinho SHOULD be doing better, but I was never expecting him to turn it around, go 6 games unbeaten in the prem, scoring 20 odd and conceding none. You probably didnt expect that of Conte either but I think it's safe to say that was far more achievable coming into Chelsea than United. Look at Klopp. Liverpool were thoroughly mediocre in his first 7 months. Now look at how he's got them to gell.

Btw I did accept in my previous post that you were right about the level of improvement under Hiddink. Yeh it wasnt back to your best as I'd implied.
 
Treble said:
Bobby the reason people were saying Chelsea were out was for 2 reasons. Firstly bcos your players attitude was under question, and secondly to kick a dog when it's down.

What we've seen is that with a few tweaks of an already title winning side, you're back to where you were. That shouldnt belittle what Conte's done but it highlights you already had a decent set of players for him to work with and tweak.

You say they won the league 2 seasons ago but what changed last season as far as your competition is concerned? Arsenal did **** all, City were wet, we were awful. Leicester won the league which tells us enough about the rest.

To say Mourinho should be able to make as effective/rapid a change in performance as Conte at Chelsea given the starting point for each seems unrealistic. I can accept Mourinho SHOULD be doing better, but I was never expecting him to turn it around, go 6 games unbeaten in the prem, scoring 20 odd and conceding none. You probably didnt expect that of Conte either but I think it's safe to say that was far more achievable coming into Chelsea than United. Look at Klopp. Liverpool were thoroughly mediocre in his first 7 months. Now look at how he's got them to gell.

Btw I did accept in my previous post that you were right about the level of improvement under Hiddink. Yeh it wasnt back to your best as I'd implied.
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I accept that you have clarified we were not back to our previous best, i was noting in your initial post you didn't say that.

What's changed in our squad, for one i think our key players in that team are older (ivanovic, terry) and mourinho had us playing as a sum greater than our parts (like fergie did with your 2012 squad). We also lack serious squad depth. Obviously the quality of our side if far better than Leicester but your title winning argument could be bandied for leicesters team.

I'm still not convinced by our players and we were struggling in 4-2-3-1. But this new formation seems to suit what we have.
 
KLOPP ON ROONEY INCIDENT Jurgen Klopp has been asking our reporter James Cooper about Wayne Rooney's late-night session in the England hotel on Saturday because he doesn't know about it! After being brought up to speed, this was his response:
"What I can say is that I feel for the players a lot. We are on the sunny side, with all the money we earn, but maybe it’s a surprise that, in the end, there’s a human being behind it. Maybe we still be professional and say ‘no I won’t drink and if you smoke put 20 yards between me and you’ because I don’t want to be a passive smoker. That’s not how life works. This generation is the most professional in football. All the guys we all admire, all the legends, they drank like devils, and smoked like crazy and were still good players. Nobody does it anymore. It’s all about timing and when you are in the wrong place at the wrong time it’s not good. I have no idea where Wayne was but I'm pretty sure it wasn't so serious."

This fair minded human approach to a footballer is just not right!!! Shouldn't Rooney be hung? The press just wont know what to do about that comment I think it'll be ignored and the tabloids will continue their hunt for his head.

Seriously though I'm not a fan of Rooney and it's not an isolated incident, I agree that too much is made of it but I also think that with his history and the fact that he's not exactly playing well should mean that he's working hard to get back in the team other than out late at night at a party.

 
I completely agree luv, Klopp should be hung <ok>

Ultimately becoming a professional footballer doesn't change who you are. Being one doesn't stop players like Rooney, Gazza and Best from drinking, any more than it saved Gary Speed from mental illness or Steven Gerrard from being a ****.

People seem to expect footballers to be somehow different from the society they live in. Doesn't happen. How many people can ever say they have never turned up to work with a hangover and thought "**** it, I might catch some **** but I won't get fired for it". Rooney knows he won't get fired for it either, so of course he'll go for it.
 
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The scouser board has gone dead now the league is about to start again, I think they sense the bust cycle is very close :grin:
 
Diego said:
The scouser board has gone dead now the league is about to start again, I think they sense the bust cycle is very close :grin:
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Liverpool really have benefitted from no mid-week football. First time their players have had to deal with that and today they've capitulated :biggrin:
 
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Skylarker said:
Maybe because Luv is bored of you banging on about the past Swarbs? ;)
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Past? You do realise Gerrard still is, and always will be, a ****. God willing, he will continue to be a **** for the foreseeable future, always cursing whatever club he joins to fail to win the league.

I'm hoping to see him in a Liverpool shirt again by the end of the season <ok>
 
Swarbs said:
Past? You do realise Gerrard still is, and always will be, a ****. God willing, he will continue to be a **** for the foreseeable future, always cursing whatever club he joins to fail to win the league.

I'm hoping to see him in a Liverpool shirt again by the end of the season <ok>
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Nice to see the usual [HASHTAG]#fear[/HASHTAG] based posts in November. By Christmas You'll be [HASHTAG]#feared[/HASHTAG] right up.

Not sure if you or @Treble suffers worse with [HASHTAG]#fear[/HASHTAG] tbh <ok>
 
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