Rival watch

[No Kane No Gain]

Who even cares how big a club is? It's a pointless discussion as everyone has different criteria. I'm more interested in what's going on at my club now, than what trophies we won before I was born, or how big the attendances are, or how quickly tickets sell on a preseason tour of Asia.

Ultimately, when you start supporting a team you generally don't have much choice in who you support. And if you did have a choice and chose your team because they were the most successful team at the time or a bigger club then you're a glory hunter. Where's the pride in that?

It's not taken long for the bitters at Liverpool to show their faces again(even if it's under new accounts), it was obvious with the way they always dismissed us at the start of the season that it really irked them that such a big club as themselves found that Spurs were consistently out performing them on the field and beating them to several signings. They can't even wait until the season really gets going, being above us on goals scored after 6 games is apparently enough for them to start crowing

 

[notsosmartspur]

How many more iffy results is Moyes away from being the nxt sacking? Odd stuff coming out in the news....

1. Advised to keep some key backroom staff, for continuity....ignored it, got rid of the lot, replaced with his own.
2. Says the side that won last years PL without much fuss, suddenly needs not just one, but a number of 'world class' players???

Which brings me to 3. Did SAF overachieve on reputation, influence, presence, call it whatever you want, with an average bunch of players? Quite possibly, it has been touched on by a Times reporter today. I recall an honest answer from SAF a season or two ago, you could see it in his face when asked what he thought of being top of the table going into the New Year. He cracked a genuine smile and said " I've no idea how we are" their start had been indifferent at best (maybe Moyes should look back at the last few seasons United starts!). Obviously, immediate traditional top4 rivals were/are undergoing their own transitions and you could say SAF and his experience took advantage of that.

Back to Moyes, take RVP and Rooney out, who else is world class in that side, everyone else is debateable imo....sorry Luke,they are!

If Moyes can't turn this round by Xmas, whether he's given the JanTW budget remains to be seen, he didn't attract anyone in the summer...oh, his embarrassingly over-priced mate! (who for the record I do not rate, oafish clumsy player imo, as far removed from a traditional "United player" as you'll see.)

 

[Hoddle is a god]

If 'Pool make top 4 this season, it will be because both United and £ity screw up.

That is fact.

 

[Shaw]

"Tiny Tottenham."

Really?

I'd say Spurs is a bigger club than 'Pool, now, and has been for some while.

Yes, you will bang on about 'Pool's "Glory Days," but they are a long time past, and don't seem set to return for a very long time. We have consistently out-performed you in the EPL for several seasons, now, and have clearly been the bigger draw for top players.

It's early days, sure; but I doubt that anyone with half a footballing brain truly believes that 'Pool can sustain this run of good form. You've had a very good start to the season (for you), so it is right that you should enjoy it while it lasts, but don't let it all go to your head.

In what ways are you a bigger club, elaborate please.

You've managed to finish 4 season above us, the best you've managed to in your club history.

And I don't need a Totenham fan telling me about 'letting it go to my head'.
You enjoy you time in top the end, it's clear you lot are going through some of your best years EVER. So enjoy it while it lasts, But don't let it all get to YOUR head.

 

[NSIS]

I wouldn't disagree with a lot of the above. I thought last season that Utd looked like they were over achieving with the squad they had. Take RVP and Rooney out and what are you left with? To my mind, an increasingly dodgy looking defensive unit ( now conceded 8 goals in 6 ) some good, but not great midfield players, and some good strikers. But yes, you get the impression that if both Rooney and RVP were simultaneously injured, that Utd would struggle.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Chelsea whinge about strikers, the fifty mill flop, desperately getting Old Man Eto'o in for fuk all. Newsflash to Bridge, 2 of the top 5 PL scorers this year 2013 are....


......Sturridge and Lukaku!

 

[The RDBD]

"It's not taken long for the bitters at Liverpool to show their faces again"

Obviously the History Channel have got their schedule (on paper) sorted til the new year.
As always, the programmes change drastically after that.

 

[The RDBD]

Moyes more or less has the same squad as last season.
Barring an injury plague, we will for the first time have the chance to
quantify (in terms of PL points) the true effect of the Fergie factor.

 

[Shaw]

Who even cares how big a club is? It's a pointless discussion as everyone has different criteria. I'm more interested in what's going on at my club now, than what trophies we won before I was born, or how big the attendances are, or how quickly tickets sell on a preseason tour of Asia.

Ultimately, when you start supporting a team you generally don't have much choice in who you support. And if you did have a choice and chose your team because they were the most successful team at the time or a bigger club then you're a glory hunter. Where's the pride in that?

It's not taken long for the bitters at Liverpool to show their faces again(even if it's under new accounts), it was obvious with the way they always dismissed us at the start of the season that it really irked them that such a big club as themselves found that Spurs were consistently out performing them on the field and beating them to several signings. They can't even wait until the season really gets going, being above us on goals scored after 6 games is apparently enough for them to start crowing

You didn't beat us to anyone, but keep believing so if that makes you sleep sound at night. All you had was to overpay to get our targets, we just didn't think they worth the EXTRA effort. Dempsey rubbish, Sigg- not worth the salary, Willian -again bigger salary and TF. we couldn't even guarantee a starting place, since we had coutinho, you could, but he still endedup elsewhere because he hasn't heard of you lot until you knocked on his door with a higher salary.

To have signed a contract and ditched you is just embarrassing, I'm sure we wouldn't have been in such a dire situation.

 

[Hoddle is a god]

In what ways are you a bigger club, elaborate please.

Blimey! Where do I start?

First off, we have to completely disregard "Glory Days" of more than a decade old. That alone relegates 'Pool to the ranks of a very ordinary club.

Secondly, we need to concentrate on recent history, say over the last four or five seasons.

Thirdly, we need to look at which of our clubs players would rather play at.

Fourthly, we need to look at the clubs' ability to attract the best managers, and I don't think there will be much disputing the fact that AVB is the better manager.

There are other indicators, but I've picked the most important ones.

When we add all of the above up, it's perfectly obvious that Spurs has been the bigger club for some while, and will continue to be.

It is hard for most fans to accept that their club is no longer the force that it once was, but I think it is even harder for Mousers. That isn't my fault.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Don't worry Bobby we're going to dispose of the problem in a traditional Glaswegian way, just wait a few more minutes and we'll go in there with the cleavers and a roll of binbags!

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[cini65]

Unbiased opinion... both Liverpool and Spurs seem equal to each other in terms of attracting new players.

First XI-wise... neither of you really have players that would walk into each others' teams. Not to say you don't have great players, but none that are standout better than the other team's player in that position:

Mignolet vs Lloris - close
Walker v Johnson - close
Toure v Vertonghen - close but Vertonghen
Agger v Kaboul - close
Enrique v Naughton - Enrique
Lucas v Paulinho - close
Gerrard v Dembele - close
Henderson v Eriksen - no contest, Eriksen
Coutinho v Lamela - close
Sturridge v Sigs - Sturridge
Suarez v Soldado - Suarez

 

[Spursguru]

Unbiased opinion... both Liverpool and Spurs seem equal to each other in terms of attracting new players.

First XI-wise... neither of you really have players that would walk into each others' teams. Not to say you don't have great players, but none that are standout better than the other team's player in that position:

Mignolet vs Lloris - Good with the ball at his feet, and can play sweeper keeper. SM is not as good at this.
Johnson v Walker - close maybe on last seasons form, but Walker has been brilliant so far this, and has the most touches of anyone in our team.
Toure v Vertonghen - close but Vertonghen - Taure has been very good this year, but Verts is a classier defender and deserved his TOTY place.
Agger v Dawson - (corrected) close but I think Daws is more consistant.
Enrique v Rose - (Corrected) Based on this season I would go with Rose. Has been very impressive and gets forwards better than Enrique which for us is important. (though i'd say enrique is a stronger defender)
Lucas v Sandro (Corrected as Sandro is our proper DM) - close but i'd take Sandro as he has become a beast for us, never seen Lucas boss a game like he can. Would be good to see who is in the Brazil team atm?
Gerrard v Dembele - No contest Stevie G.
Coutinho v Eriksen - (Corrected) Eriksen
Henderson v Townsend/Lamela - I don't rate Henderson as a winger.
Sturridge v Soldado (Corrected) - Sturridge on current form
Suarez v Siggy - Suarez

Cini65 - I have ammended your list so that players are facing other first teamers and players in the same position.

You may call me biased, but I think Liverpool are playing better than us as a unit (largely down to our many signings) but on an individual level I think we have better players, and a much much stronger bench.

Also the Spurs defence has only conceded 2 goals in 10games having played Arsenal, Swansea and Chelsea so wins hands down.

8-3 to Spurs

 

[littleDinosaurLuke]

I wouldn't disagree with a lot of the above. I thought last season that Utd looked like they were over achieving with the squad they had. Take RVP and Rooney out and what are you left with? To my mind, an increasingly dodgy looking defensive unit ( now conceded 8 goals in 6 ) some good, but not great midfield players, and some good strikers. But yes, you get the impression that if both Rooney and RVP were simultaneously injured, that Utd would struggle.

Utd need two top quality midfielders. One who is creative/scores goals; one who shields the back four. Ozil and Alonso (or Khedira) should have been bought if Real Madrid were selling.

The progress of some young players has stalled. We're all waiting for Kagawa to become the star player he's expected to be. Jones, Smalling, Cleverley and Welbeck have not stepped up consistently enough to the level required. It's easier though when you've got world class players alongside you to learn from and to take the weight of expectation off you. This is why signings were needed in the summer to boost the team. All the other leading teams have spent big on either quality or numbers.

Rio is getting old. Sometimes it shows. Sometimes it doesn't - like the 2nd half of last season, but he's not the player he was 6-8 years ago when most strikers wouldn't have a chance of running past him. Ditto Vidic and Evra to a lesser extent.

Smart also makes a valid point that Moyes brought in too many of his own staff- none of whom know how Utd work. You can't manage a massive club without delegating. When that is to people as inexperienced in the job as you are, it's a problem.

This season might have to be written off, but with £100M to be spent in January to ensure the team/squad is good enough for next time.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Utd need two top quality midfielders. One who is creative/scores goals; one who shields the back four. Ozil and Alonso (or Khedira) should have been bought if Real Madrid were selling.

The progress of some young players has stalled. We're all waiting for Kagawa to become the star player he's expected to be. Jones, Smalling, Cleverley and Welbeck have not stepped up consistently enough to the level required. It's easier though when you've got world class players alongside you to learn from and to take the weight of expectation off you. This is why signings were needed in the summer to boost the team. All the other leading teams have spent big on either quality or numbers.

Rio is getting old. Sometimes it shows. Sometimes it doesn't - like the 2nd half of last season, but he's not the player he was 6-8 years ago when most strikers wouldn't have a chance of running past him. Ditto Vidic and Evra to a lesser extent.

Smart also makes a valid point that Moyes brought in too many of his own staff- none of whom know how Utd work. You can't manage a massive club without delegating. When that is to people as inexperienced in the job as you are, it's a problem.

This season might have to be written off, but with £100M to be spent in January to ensure the team/squad is good enough for next time.

A regular (playing well and scoring too) under SAF Luke, ignored by Toffeenose??....its going to be a long wait on the bench!

You cannot criticise Mourinho for not playing Mata, when you have the same scenario in your backyard.

 

[No Kane No Gain]

You didn't beat us to anyone, but keep believing so if that makes you sleep sound at night. All you had was to overpay to get our targets, we just didn't think they worth the EXTRA effort. Dempsey rubbish, Sigg- not worth the salary, Willian -again bigger salary and TF. we couldn't even guarantee a starting place, since we had coutinho, you could, but he still endedup elsewhere because he hasn't heard of you lot until you knocked on his door with a higher salary.

To have signed a contract and ditched you is just embarrassing, I'm sure we wouldn't have been in such a dire situation.

What a weird way of qualifying it. It's actually very simple, if you bid for a player and we sign him then we've beaten you to a signing, haven't we?

You've unwittingly proven exactly what I mean. The denial that little, old Tottenham have ever beaten you to signing a player is because the mere thought of it doesn't sit well with Liverpool fans stuck in the past. It's the same with league finishes, everytime I've suggested that you were unlikely to finish above us in recent seasons it's been met with outrage by your fans. Every year it's "how could we possibly keep up with Liverpool and their astonishing new summer signings?" and every year we kept a healthy distance between us and yourselves.

Those are some great excuses though, we've never beaten you to any signings but the only reason we have beaten you to signings is because they're rubbish, you didn't want them and we paid them more then you. Chelsea beat us to Willian, I can admit it because I can accept it, you won't hear me whinging about how they'd offered more than us or wasn't worth the money

 

[cini65]

Mignolet vs Lloris - Good with the ball at his feet, and can play sweeper keeper. SM is not as good at this.
Johnson v Walker - close maybe on last seasons form, but Walker has been brilliant so far this, and has the most touches of anyone in our team.
Toure v Vertonghen - close but Vertonghen - Taure has been very good this year, but Verts is a classier defender and deserved his TOTY place.
Agger v Dawson - (corrected) close but I think Daws is more consistant.
Enrique v Rose - (Corrected) Based on this season I would go with Rose. Has been very impressive and gets forwards better than Enrique which for us is important. (though i'd say enrique is a stronger defender)
Lucas v Sandro (Corrected as Sandro is our proper DM) - close but i'd take Sandro as he has become a beast for us, never seen Lucas boss a game like he can. Would be good to see who is in the Brazil team atm?
Gerrard v Dembele - No contest Stevie G.
Coutinho v Eriksen - (Corrected) Eriksen
Henderson v Townsend/Lamela - I don't rate Henderson as a winger.
Sturridge v Soldado (Corrected) - Sturridge on current form
Suarez v Siggy - Suarez

Pssh. Lloris is good but Mignolet is just as good. Walker brilliant? 'Dawson and Enrique better than Agger and Enrique' is just WUMmish. No difference between Sandro and Lucas, both strong. Gerrard is so overrated, Dembele just as good. Eriksen better than Coutinho? Based on what?! Sturridge better than Soldado 'on current form'... why can't you just admit he's better full stop?? Why put 'on current form' after that one but not half the others? Because you don't want to admit your £28m striker isn't all that good?

You're trying to pick clear winners when there aren't any. Combine the two squads into an uber-squad and the only player who stands out as being significantly better than their counterpart would be Suarez (and I'd say any Spurs midfielder being better than Gerrard but that's just because I'm biased and think Gerrard is the biggest pile of cack ever). The rest are quite close and it will be down to form, tactics, morale and management. Fortunately for Arsenal Brenda is a numpty and AVB has stupid hair

 

[Spursguru]

Pssh. Lloris is good but Mignolet is just as good. Walker brilliant? 'Dawson and Enrique better than Agger and Enrique' is just WUMmish. No difference between Sandro and Lucas, both strong. Gerrard is so overrated, Dembele just as good. Eriksen better than Coutinho? Based on what?! Sturridge better than Soldado 'on current form'... why can't you just admit he's better full stop?? Why put 'on current form' after that one but not half the others? Because you don't want to admit your £28m striker isn't all that good?

You're trying to pick clear winners when there aren't any. Combine the two squads into an uber-squad and the only player who stands out as being significantly better than their counterpart would be Suarez (and I'd say any Spurs midfielder being better than Gerrard but that's just because I'm biased and think Gerrard is the biggest pile of cack ever). The rest are quite close and it will be down to form, tactics, morale and management. Fortunately for Arsenal Brenda is a numpty and AVB has stupid hair

Lloris is better than Mignolet, especially with the ball at his feet.
I said Walker has been brilliant on current form. Which he has.
If you mean Dawson and Rose, better than Agger and Enrique, then looking at this years stats you would have to say I am right.
You say there is no difference between Lucas and Sandro, but I have actually given you one. Lucas does not dominate games like Sandro, both are good, sandro is better.
"Gerrard is so overrated"......and you say I am "Wummish"? I like Dembele, I have never seen a player get out of tight situations like he does, however it is widely acknowledged he lacks a cutting edge. Gerrard has achieved greatness through his personal achievements.
You ask me to quantify my opinion on Erickson over coutinho, when you have not done this for any of your answers? I can't, I just feel having watched them both this season that CE is a better player, and I think this will be evident come the end of the season
I can't admit he is better as I have not seen Soldado all that much. I can only say on current form. He might have been amazing last year. Sturridge has not been amazing at City or Chelsea, or last year Liverpool. only this year has he been good, hence the "on current form"

I've picked winners where I see them, we have the best defence in the prem so far but are short up front, this is why you can see Suarez, Sturridge and Gerrard in the team. The difference may not be great, but I can still stand by my choices with more reasoning that you have applied.

however, what you are missing is the most vital aspect of all, teamwork. Something I did mention.

If you go man for man with Arsenal I would have more Spurs players, but I would say atm Arsenal and Liverpool are playing better than us as the are a better gelled unit.

PS if one of our strikers wasn't THAT good, I would have no problem saying it. It is not me that buys the players after all.

 

[notsosmartspur]

Pssh. Lloris is good but Mignolet is just as good. Walker brilliant? 'Dawson and Enrique better than Agger and Enrique' is just WUMmish. No difference between Sandro and Lucas, both strong. Gerrard is so overrated, Dembele just as good. Eriksen better than Coutinho? Based on what?! Sturridge better than Soldado 'on current form'... why can't you just admit he's better full stop?? Why put 'on current form' after that one but not half the others? Because you don't want to admit your £28m striker isn't all that good?

You're trying to pick clear winners when there aren't any. Combine the two squads into an uber-squad and the only player who stands out as being significantly better than their counterpart would be Suarez (and I'd say any Spurs midfielder being better than Gerrard but that's just because I'm biased and think Gerrard is the biggest pile of cack ever). The rest are quite close and it will be down to form, tactics, morale and management. Fortunately for Arsenal Brenda is a numpty and AVB has stupid hair

What? how you can say Gerrard is and always has been rubbish?? whatever has distorted your view of him it cannot be about his abilities, have a look at his pass yesterday out to Sturridge for the Suarez goal, then tell me if Wilshere and Walcott passed like that in the last England game they were together?...look no further for your big piles of cack!

 

[Spursguru]

What? how you can say Gerrard is and always has been rubbish?? whatever has distorted your view of him it cannot be about his abilities, have a look at his pass yesterday out to Sturridge for the Suarez goal, then tell me if Wilshere and Walcott passed like that in the last England game they were together?...look no further for your big piles of cack!

Perhaps I should have gone for a simple answer like yours!