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I'd suggest that your defensive problems aren't entirely down to the personnel at the back though, Lidls.
You seem to have severe injury/fitness concerns in that area, which damages stability there, but your goalkeeper situation is a puzzle and you've got no physicality in the centre of the park when Fletcher's out.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
I'm not myopic, DL, but things aren't as bleak as you suggest.

Any team is second favourite v Barcelona, we know that. Real Madrid have good players (but when did they last make an impact in the CL?). Bayern Munich are strong; Dortmund have some good young players. But what's new?

English teams have consistently been competitive in Europe. Utd, in particular, have the know-how. How can you dismiss the potential match winning qualities of RvP or Rooney whilst championing the unproven players of unproven teams?

Defence is a worry for both Utd and Arsenal, I accept that, but how can you judge players' form in spring based on what they've done 3-5 months earlier in autumn and winter? Utd conceded 4 goals in 12 CL games (prior to the final) in 2010-11 (the season which ended only 19 months ago!). All the defenders are still at the club and have massive experience in the CL. Who's to say a fit Vidic and Ferdinand can't defend like Terry and others did in the competition last season? They looked even weaker and more vulnerable that Utd do now in the earlier part of the last PL season. And big games in the Q-F, S-F and final of the CL are rarely decided by who has the most "technically gifted" players, but by who has the most resolute and least nervous players under pressure and who takes their chances when they come along.
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Barcelona, Bayern, Real and to a lesser extent Dortmund are light years ahead of the rest. We've seen nothing of Ferdinand in the last 3 years to suggest he can replicate the kind of form he showed in the 07/08 season, Vidic is good granted. Once Carlos Quieroz (your real tactician) left you haven't been the same defensively.

Deep down you know you'd be no match for Bayern, Dortmund, Barca and Real, that said I still believe your light years ahead of Malaga, AC Milan, Inter, Arsenal, Schalke and the other Pretenders. I'd put you in between Juve and Shaktar personally. <ok>

If I'm wrong then I'll come on here and apologise but you won't find many backing United for the CL whereas in previous years you'd have never written them off but the rest are just so far ahead now.
 
Messi missed, Robben didn't. Cech actually saved the penalty, he had studied all of Bayern's penalties over the last 4 years and knew Robben almost inside out as they were both Chelsea. He guessed correctly based on knowledge he had gathered over years. For me when you prepare for something, it isn't luck. I agree Messi's was lucky but can't agree with people saying a keeper saving a penalty is lucky, they do their homework more often than not
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Robben miss-hit the penalty so unless Cech had a crystal ball then wouldn't put it down to homework.

"It wasn't a good penalty. I wanted to shoot the ball hard and high in the goal, but the ball didn't go high enough. It was a terrible penalty kick.
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The pressure got to Robben as he hit at the perfect height for Cech to save.
 
littleDinosaurLuke said:
DL, we've only had the group stages, but I've seen nothing so far to suggest these teams are invincible. Bayern lost 3-1 in Minsk to Bate in their first away game, Barcelona struggled to break Celtic down twice (and conceded 3 goals against them). Hardly likely to strike fear into the big guns. It's a cup competition now. Ties will be decided by more tangible (albeit uncertain) factors than perceived ability, such as form on the day, injuries, suspensions, refereeing decisions, tactics, moments of brilliance and mistakes. Utd are more than capable of competing with all the sides left. And another important issue looms large- the draw. Bayern Munich v Real Madrid in the last 16 might make life a lot harder for one of your invincibles.
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Traditionally the big European clubs have always remained in 2nd gear in the group stage. We all know that if Barca needed to beat Celtic, they would have done it and comprehensively at that.

United cannot compete with Barca, Real or Bayern. Dortmund? Yes
 
Changing the subject, Arsenal have their strongest team out tonight and it looks impressive. They are already one nil up v reading and I think it could be a fairly easy win for them unfortunately.
 
Yeah I agree Thor and I switched over too! That Arsenal team does look impressive. Would love us to play them at full strength with them at full strength with no sendings off. Would be a bloody good game.
 
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