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KingHotspur said:
If @BrunelGunner is going to mention Hewlett-Packard and their funding towards the Apartheid state of Israel then he needs to mention Arsenal’s current kit makers Puma too.

https://bdsmovement.net/boycott-puma
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The difference is I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not denying or making excuses for the type of organisations that fund us. I don't like it, and it pisses me off, but I can't do anything about it, can I? Likewise with the Uyghurs, where Arsenal tried to distance themselves, yet are now posting support for Ukraine.

Maybe some of you on here want to make excuses for the type of companies that have sponsored you, or prefer to remain ignorant, but I have never shied away from it.
 
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BrunelGunner said:
The difference is I'm not pretending otherwise. I'm not denying or making excuses for the type of organisations that fund us. I don't like it, and it pisses me off, but I can't do anything about it, can I? Likewise with the Uyghurs, where Arsenal tried to distance themselves, yet are now posting support for Ukraine.

Maybe some of you on here want to make excuses for the type of companies that have sponsored you, or prefer to remain ignorant, but I have never shied away from it.
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That’s fair enough. I didn’t see all the posts, tbf I can’t disagree with anything you’ve said
 
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Diego said:
You sold them a player of value, surely that makes you part of the money laundering scheme?
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Al those people part of the "money laundering scheme" .

Spurs.
The people who sell food // toilet products to Wastelands.

The people who
< insert kindred embarrassingly low intelligence Diego fallacy here > ...
 
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I have to laugh at supporters of BDS. And then I shed a tear for the harm that movement has done to innocent Palestinian people, all in the name of typically clumsy western political posturing.

Estimates vary, but the most optimistic figures I've seen indicate that the movement has caused a whopping 0.04% downturn in Israel's GDP since 2005, while close to 1800 Palestinians have lost their jobs and a further 35,000 employed in over a dozen West Bank Industrial Zones go to work each day not knowing if they will be out of work by the end of the day due to said posturing.

Palestinians employed by Israeli companies in the West Bank earn up to 5 x the average wage of Palestinians employed by Palestinian companies, and on average also enjoy various health and insurance benefits under Israeli law.

I'd agree with the movement if it actually worked, but it doesn't. Largely because the people who make the most noise about it on the ground are members of the corrupt and impotent Fatah/PA/Hamas apparatus whose income streams are guaranteed by the steady flow of financial aid and donations, while those making noise in the West often don't grasp the complexities of the situation and forget that ordinary people are the ones who suffer - always.

The movement is the economic manifestation of cutting off one's nose to spite one's face.
 
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Citizen Kane. said:
I have to laugh at supporters of BDS. And then I shed a tear for the harm that movement has done to innocent Palestinian people, all in the name of typically clumsy western political posturing.
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CK, I'm not saying this to intentionally be a dick, but I've seen you post on here (not necessarily on this thread) multiple times about your time in Israel, about working there and living there for many years. I can't take your opinion on BDS or any pro-Palestine movement/organisation seriously when I know you're not assessing the situation fairly and clearly have vested interests.

I am obviously not 'objective' or 'neutral' in this either, as I will always ally myself with the Palestinians and their struggle, but that's more because I see them as being oppressed and I believe they warrant justice for the decades of pain they have endured. If you're trying to suggest the BDS movement has done more harm for the Palestinians than the Israeli state, Israeli institutions and Zionism as a whole, then I really don't know what to tell you.

I am also not interested in hearing anything that tries to distract from the real aggressors at hand here. And your post does exactly that.
 
Spurf said:
BrunelGunner
"Yep. But it’s not. And with all the shady characters and sponsorships that’s been allowed in the league, I’m not sure what the point is of making this a moral issue now. The Premier League set this precedent years ago and now every Premier League club is somewhat responsible for the misfortunes and exploitation of others. What exactly is it you’re trying to get prove with this? Nothing is going to materially change at this point."

Moral issues are moral issues time should not be a part of it should it?
Because the background of the PL is purely money based with little concern for real moral issues, which just reflects the UK that has been built over the last 40 years it does not mean you should just throw in the towel and accept any or all of the ravenous decisions individual clubs make.
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Sorry Spurf, I didn't see this comment until now, as I didn't get a notification.

I agree with you that time should not be a part of it, and I agree what football is becoming/has become should not be so, but I'm also realistic enough to know that nothing you or I do is going to fundamentally change anything. The powers that be, at a domestic and international level, allowed these evil characters to flood the Premier League with exploitative money, blood money or stolen money. They should have protected the sport from these morally ambiguous characters.

Now it is too late to turn back and you only have to see Saudi's purchase of Newcastle as further proof of that. All of the other 19 clubs tried to prevent the sale going through and they were all powerless to Arab money.

Maybe you think I am too cynical about this, but I don't believe you or I have any real power to prevent this from happening. And there are plenty of cases which prove my point.

I supported Arsenal long before I was even aware of our history or before we were sponsored by dictators. And even though I hate the type of organisations and people affiliated with us, the truth is I am too emotionally invested to just stop supporting them. Just like many football fans would be, as football is a highly emotional sport and it's not easy to just give something up like that.

I will always criticise the Tories, Bashar al-Assad, Donald Trump, Putin, Modi, Bolsonaro etc, but Arsenal are sponsored by Rwanda and UAE.

Does that make me a hypocrite? Probably. But that's human nature for you.
 
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BrunelGunner said:
I am also not interested in hearing anything that tries to distract from the real aggressors at hand here.
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Equally not writing this to be a dick Brunel as I see you as a solid and balanced poster (other than your choice of team) with whom I've enjoyed plenty of good exchanges over the years, but what you've written here sums up my concern.

Reducing the conflict to a zero sum game is the natural emotional reaction we have in any given situation. It also happens to be the quickest and easiest to pursue, as it approaches every problem and proposes every solution in the political opinion of binary code.

The reality on the ground is far more nuanced and while I am ardently against Israeli settlements and their expansion, it is crystal clear going on two decades down the line that the BDS movement isn't the solution - precisely because it approaches the problem as a zero sum game.

We're seeing a lot of this with Russia right now. Casting them as 100% wrong is both false and unhelpful - and ultimately will lead to either a new Cold War or a fragile and uneasy peace. Now, it may well be that their concerns about NATO expansion and Ukrainian corruption are merely a fragment of a justification for what they are doing, but even shifting our focus from viewing the conflict as 100:0 to 90:10 changes things drastically.
 
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How did the 4th Palace goal stand , the the ball hit the players hand which helped him to get a shot off which resulted palace scoring from the rebound , without the ball to hand he would not have been able to take the shot
 
Alfie Conn said:
How did the 4th Palace goal stand , the the ball hit the players hand which helped him to get a shot off which resulted palace scoring from the rebound , without the ball to hand he would not have been able to take the shot
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It's now allowed under emergency rule 295b....anything that can piss of current or ex Chelsea russian dictator fanboys ... sorry .. idols, is fair game
 
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