Rival watch

[Diego]

The next time somebody asks how the abysmal quality of officiating in the Premier League is not only ignored by so many, I'm going to link to this comment.

Why? Because in most other careers, when somebody displays gross incompetence at the job they're supposed to be doing it isn't dismissed by people saying "Get over it" - instead it has the person who was grossly incompetent getting (at the very least) one hell of a bollocking for doing the job they are employed to do badly.

So when the officials fail to do their job, for example Mustafi scoring when offside from a free kick given for literally no reason, I am going to criticise the officials for failing to do their job to anything approaching a reasonable standard. If you can't understand that, I suggest you get over it.

The free kick bit I fully understand, from then on it was just poor defending, even the off-side was debateable because at the time the kick was taken he was leaning just beyond your defenders with his right arm and shoulder. Off-side only counts with scoring parts of the body so the arm (and in most cases the shoulder) counts as hand ball so not a scoring part.
Regardless of any of that, the defending was poor in that situation and the goal could have been avoided. Like I said, **** does happen and sometimes there is more than one person to blame.

 

[Diego]

Sorry Diego but...
Yes the defenders weren't brilliant but the whole point of the offside rule is so that the attacking player does not have an advantage over the defending players. Mustafi being offside gave him the advantage that he should not have been allowed. He used that advantage to be better than the defenders.

I realise that, it was brought in so that attackers couldn't gain advantage by having a start on defenders. In this case the attacker actually had to stop and let the defenders run past him so he could meet the flight of the ball (if you look at the still of when the ball was kicked just his arm and shoulder were ahead of play so not much of an advantage when his feet had to catch up ).
Not saying it's wrong to mention it and if it was against us I probably would but, that is not why you lost.

 

[D.G.C.]

Would you say both Spurs and West Ham surrendered this weekend? Didn't do either of us any good.I hope it's out of Spurs system and we will get going again!

Spurs were leading up to that surrender so let's hope it's bottomed out and we can get going again. Whenever I picture Poch I see the image of a winner.

 

[cini65]

Difference being that neither of Watford's goals were offside...

Goal one, debatable and quite possibly. If offside had been given I'd have said 'well yeah ok'.

Second goal, no chance of it being offside.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

The free kick bit I fully understand, from then on it was just poor defending, even the off-side was debateable because at the time the kick was taken he was leaning just beyond your defenders with his right arm and shoulder. Off-side only counts with scoring parts of the body so the arm (and in most cases the shoulder) counts as hand ball so not a scoring part.
Regardless of any of that, the defending was poor in that situation and the goal could have been avoided. Like I said, **** does happen and sometimes there is more than one person to blame.

Yes, more than one person is to blame: Mike Dean for awarding a foul that he clearly made up, and his linesman for failing to understand the offside rule.

Just so you know, on the off chance a ceiling collapses when you screw in a lightbulb, I'm saying it's your fault because you're a bad electrician - rather than hold the builder who made the ceiling structurally unsound in the first place responsible because, as you say, **** happens and it's never one person's fault.

 

[Diego]

Yes, more than one person is to blame: Mike Dean for awarding a foul that he clearly made up, and his linesman for failing to understand the offside rule.

Just so you know, on the off chance a ceiling collapses when you screw in a lightbulb, I'm saying it's your fault because you're a bad electrician - rather than hold the builder who made the ceiling structurally unsound in the first place responsible because, as you say, **** happens and it;s never one person's fault.

Very good analogy, you should read it again

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Goal one, debatable and quite possibly. If offside had been given I'd have said 'well yeah ok'.

Second goal, no chance of it being offside.

When a player is in an offside position, as Sanchez was, then there is a very good chance of a goal being offside. That's how the offside rule works.

 

[Diego]

When a player is in an offside position, as Sanchez was, then there is a very good chance of a goal being offside. That's how the offside rule works.

 

[cini65]

When a player is in an offside position, as Sanchez was, then there is a very good chance of a goal being offside. That's how the offside rule works.

Erm. Eh?

The ball is played BACK to Sanchez. And your Sanchez is several yards closer to your goal than our Sanchez is too.

Or do you mean Lacazette and not Sanchez? In which case the only camera view available suggests that only Lacazette's arm is offside. Which means not offside.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Erm. Eh?

The ball is played BACK to Sanchez. And your Sanchez is several yards closer to your goal than our Sanchez is too.

Or do you mean Lacazette and not Sanchez? In which case the only camera view available suggests that only Lacazette's arm is offside. Which means not offside.

He means Lacazette, whose head and upper body were also offside, which means he's offside.

 

[Diego]

Erm. Eh?

The ball is played BACK to Sanchez. And your Sanchez is several yards closer to your goal than our Sanchez is too.

Or do you mean Lacazette and not Sanchez? In which case the only camera view available suggests that only Lacazette's arm is offside. Which means not offside.

I thought he was talking about Lacazette who was slightly off-side at the start of the move.

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Erm. Eh?

The ball is played BACK to Sanchez. And your Sanchez is several yards closer to your goal than our Sanchez is too.

Or do you mean Lacazette and not Sanchez?

Yes, I meant the Lacazette who was about quarter of a yard closer to our goal than every single one of our outfield players when he received the ball.

 

[cini65]

He means Lacazette, whose head and upper body were also offside, which means he's offside.

Really? The only camera shot I've seen is the skysports one which was used by their people to show only his arm was off. Therefore not offside. Can you show me the better image you've seen showing his upper body offside?

 

[cini65]

I thought he was talking about Lacazette who was slightly off-side at the start of the move.

Skysports image and pundit analysis didn't think so

 

[cini65]

Yes, I meant the Lacazette who was about quarter of a yard closer to our goal than every single one of our outfield players when he received the ball.

Source for the quarter yard stat?

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

Really? The only camera shot I've seen is the skysports one which was used by their people to show only his arm was off. Therefore not offside. Can you show me the better image you've seen showing his upper body offside?

You're talking about this image, aren't you?

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[cini65]

You're talking about this image, aren't you?

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That's the one. Though not entirely clear if they've drawn that white line through his right foot or left shoulder.

 

[PleaseNotPoll]

That's the one. Though not entirely clear if they've drawn that white line through his right foot or left shoulder.

His foot's level. The top of his body is ahead of his foot, isn't it?

 

[humanbeingincroydon]

Source for the quarter yard stat?

See PNP's post above.

As for your claim that analysis disagree...
Marginal offside for both Arsenal goals: Replays show that both Shkodran Mustafi and Alexis Sanchez were a fraction offside for their goals -The Guardian
Referee Mike Dean had come under scrutiny after it appeared that Spurs had cause for complaint for both goals - The Independent
(B)oth goals, scored in the first half by Skhodran Mustafi and Alexis Sanchez, were marginally offside - The Torygraph
(R)eplays showed not only had Spurs' Sanchez won the ball with his tackle, Mustafi was marginally offside. - The Express

But if pundit analysis is so important to you, here's Liam Brady saying that not only were both goals offside, but there was no reason to award a free kick that led to the first goal either

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[cini65]

Well

See PNP's post above.

As for your claim that analysis disagree...
Marginal offside for both Arsenal goals: Replays show that both Shkodran Mustafi and Alexis Sanchez were a fraction offside for their goals -The Guardian
Referee Mike Dean had come under scrutiny after it appeared that Spurs had cause for complaint for both goals - The Independent
(B)oth goals, scored in the first half by Skhodran Mustafi and Alexis Sanchez, were marginally offside - The Torygraph
(R)eplays showed not only had Spurs' Sanchez won the ball with his tackle, Mustafi was marginally offside. - The Express

But if pundit analysis is so important to you, here's Liam Brady saying that not only were both goals offside, but there was no reason to award a free kick that led to the first goal either

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Well if you think Sanchez was offside then you haven't even watched it yourself because that's lunacy.

EDIT - realised it doesn't say that, my error.

First goal - clearly not a foul. Quite probably offside. Goal should be disallowed.

Second goal - not clear if offside. Image is not completely straight. White line is not immediately clear if going through right foot or left shoulder of Lacazette. Benefit of doubt to attacker in all offside decisions if not clear.