Rival Watch Thread Watch

[Swarbs]

So if Man Utd hadn't been **** he would have been saying "well don't give me any credit yet this is just the start?"

He's had almost 1/3 of Moyes's career so far and all he's done is dump you out of every competition he could and put you 7-10 points behind Moyes in the PL

We have 11 points from 7 games.

Tell me more about how Moyes got 21 points from his first 7 games...

 

[Stan]

We have 11 points from 7 games.

Tell me more about how Moyes got 21 points from his first 7 games...

Moyes got 10 points from the first 7 games. I don't know what the f** the Hashtag Kid is on about. The pressure of finding stats to back up Balotelli's world class performances seems to have sent him into a right muddle.

 

[Tobes]

We have 11 points from 7 games.

Tell me more about how Moyes got 21 points from his first 7 games...

Oh no mate, he's working to one of the alternative kopite league tables, which is based on last seasons results

 

[Stan]

Oh no mate, he's working to one of the alternative kopite league tables, which is based on last seasons results

How is that relevant? Teams differ in strength and quality from season to season. Last season Liverpool nearly won the title. This season they'll do well to finish in the top 8. Last season teams went to Anfield hoping not to get battered. This season they'll go there expecting to get at least a point.

 

[Tobes]

How is that relevant? Teams differ in strength and quality from season to season. Last season Liverpool nearly won the title. This season they'll do well to finish in the top 8. Last season teams went to Anfield hoping not to get battered. This season they'll go there expecting to get at least a point.

It isn't.

But he specialises in meaningless stats that have no correlation to reality.

 

[Stan]

It isn't.

But he specialises in meaningless stats that have no correlation to reality.

Sometimes it's useful just to watch a game of football and base your opinion on what you saw instead of a bunch of stats!

 

[astro]

How is that relevant? Teams differ in strength and quality from season to season. Last season Liverpool nearly won the title. This season they'll do well to finish in the top 8. Last season teams went to Anfield hoping not to get battered. This season they'll go there expecting to get at least a point.

Except for some elementary particles and some specific atomic/molecular states, no two things in the universe are ever the same.

So we either make no comparisons at all or we just make the best ones we can.

So there are two basic methods we can use. Either you think it's just as easy to play Man City away as Burnley at home first game of the season because timing is the most important factor. Or secondly you can compare two managers in their results in the same fixtures.

IMO comparing fixtures is the best we can do (and every single match preview ever reports the previous season's result rather than the result from the same game week so I am not alone) and the fact is that Moyes got far more points for Man Utd than the #tacticalgenius

 

[Tobes]

Except for some elementary particles and some specific atomic/molecular states, no two things in the universe are ever the same.

So we either make no comparisons at all or we just make the best ones we can.

So there are two basic methods we can use. Either you think it's just as easy to play Man City away as Burnley at home first game of the season because timing is the most important factor. Or secondly you can compare two managers in their results in the same fixtures.

IMO comparing fixtures is the best we can do (and every single match preview ever reports the previous season's result rather than the result from the same game week so I am not alone) and the fact is that Moyes got far more points for Man Utd than the #tacticalgenius

It just shows that you don't understand the game.

As that ignores the main two factors in football, form and momentum.

Comparing fixtures that were from different points across an entire season, and therefore have no continuity, is not an accurate measure of where a side is in comparison to the previous season.

 

[astro]

It just shows that you don't understand the game.

As that ignores the main two factors in football, form and momentum.

Comparing fixtures that were from different points across an entire season, and therefore have no continuity, is not an accurate measure of where a side is in comparison to the previous season.

So on form and momentum how would you compare, say, Everton to last season?

Also, are you suggesting it is not the job of the manager to PROVIDE form and momentum in the first place?

 

[Stan]

Except for some elementary particles and some specific atomic/molecular states, no two things in the universe are ever the same.

So we either make no comparisons at all or we just make the best ones we can.

So there are two basic methods we can use. Either you think it's just as easy to play Man City away as Burnley at home first game of the season because timing is the most important factor. Or secondly you can compare two managers in their results in the same fixtures.

IMO comparing fixtures is the best we can do (and every single match preview ever reports the previous season's result rather than the result from the same game week so I am not alone) and the fact is that Moyes got far more points for Man Utd than the #tacticalgenius

The theory is flawed in so many ways it's laughable that you put so much faith in it but equally you seem to base your entire relationship with football on stats so it's perfect for you.

How do you assess the qualities of the teams that got promoted compared to the teams that got relegated last season? Is beating Liverpool the same achievement this season as it was last season? Is losing to Southampton as poor a result this season as it was last season? Was it better to play Newcastle in the first or second half of last season?

 

[Tobes]

So on form and momentum how would you compare, say, Everton to last season?

Also, are you suggesting it is not the job of the manager to PROVIDE form and momentum in the first place?

A manager can't 'provide' form ffs, all he can do is prepare his side by coaching, studying the opposition and planning for them accordingly, sending the best side out with the appropriate tactics.

Momentum is built by winning becoming habitual as confidence increases, that's precisely why your theory is meaningless.

As for Everton, our results have been poor, which has affected our confidence, particularly defensively, we've also been missing our best player.

 

[astro]

A manager can't 'provide' form ffs, all he can do is prepare his side by coaching, studying the opposition and planning for them accordingly, sending the best side out with the appropriate tactics.

Momentum is built by winning becoming habitual as confidence increases, that's precisely why your theory is meaningless.

As for Everton, our results have been poor, which has affected our confidence, particularly defensively, we've also been missing our best player.

So winning games is just some random dice roll rather than a result of the manager's preparation and tactics? And managers can do nothing about confidence?

Fellaini left ages ago stop using him as an excuse

 

[Tobes]

So winning games is just some random dice roll rather than a result of the manager's preparation and tactics? And managers can do nothing about confidence?

Fellaini left ages ago stop using him as an excuse

Can you read?

all he can do is prepare his side by coaching, studying the opposition and planning for them accordingly, sending the best side out with the appropriate tactics.

and no they can't create confidence, they can try and reduce the pressure on their players and motivate them, but it's only winning games that builds genuine confidence.

 

[astro]

Can you read?



and no they can't create confidence, they can try and reduce the pressure on their players and motivate them, but it's only winning games that builds genuine confidence.

Unless you're taking over a team mid-season after a run of losses then it's still down to the manager

"How can you blame me for my team losing this game? The players were sad after losing last week (which also wasn't my fault)!"

 

[Tobes]

Unless you're taking over a team mid-season after a run of losses then it's still down to the manager

"How can you blame me for my team losing this game? The players were sad after losing last week (which also wasn't my fault)!"

Seriously lad, try here; http://www.ukhandknitting.com/groups_directory.php?location=north

After a poor run of results, it's often a backs to the wall performance (or pure luck) that can end that sequence and you hear every week managers saying that the game was a 'turning point', 'something to build on', as it starts to breed confidence.

 

[astro]

Seriously lad, try here; http://www.ukhandknitting.com/groups_directory.php?location=north

After a poor run of results, it's often a backs to the wall performance (or pure luck) that can end that sequence and you hear every week managers saying that the game was a 'turning point', 'something to build on', as it starts to breed confidence.

Thanks, I was confused when I'd always hear managers on a bad run say "yeah I'm not going to do anything to to be honest, best thing is to just wait this run out, it'll end eventually of its own accord"

 

[Tobes]

Thanks, I was confused when I'd always hear managers on a bad run say "yeah I'm not going to do anything to to be honest, best thing is to just wait this run out, it'll end eventually of its own accord"

Idiot.

Got those Balotelli stats yet?

 

[johnsonsbaby]

Unless you're taking over a team mid-season after a run of losses then it's still down to the manager

"How can you blame me for my team losing this game? The players were sad after losing last week (which also wasn't my fault)!"

I agree with you about it being the manager's job to instil confidence - see Shankly for the greatest example of this. If manager's aren't doing all they can to up confidence then they usually lose their jobs - see Redknapp as the latest potential 'victim' of this.

 

[Tobes]

I agree with you about it being the manager's job to instil confidence - see Shankly for the greatest example of this. If manager's aren't doing all they can to up confidence then they usually lose their jobs - see Redknapp as the latest potential 'victim' of this.

Redknapp's current plight higlights the complete converse. As the players are definitely behind him, they gave their all yesterday, but they didn't have either the rub of the green or that extra 1% of confidence at the key moments of the game. i.e. Fer's shot onto the bar, and the 2 disastrous scuffed clearances for the OG's. Redknapp can't deliver that intangible difference only winning games will cure that.

Balotelli's open goal miss highlights the exact same point. By your logic that open goal miss is down to Rodgers as it was purely a lack of confidence that made him stick his foot through that.

 

[Super G Ted'inho]

Can you two get a room (thread / PM) for the week?