Ricciardo to replace Karthikeyan at HRT

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I wish him well Mifune but as you say, Senna 'B' did not - and is very unlikely to - set the world alight. Being 0.3 seconds adrift of Button's time is no mean feat, especially if the time was set under near identical conditions. But of course even if that was the case, lap time is not the whole story (I have no idea whether it was incidentally, so perhaps you could advise me?).

An F1 test involves giving feedback to engineers, which is assessed for accuracy / clarity / usefulness / direction etc. From what I've heard, Senna was not stunningly impressive in this department. Button on the other hand, is probably the best in the business, being at least on a par with Alonso and better than Vettel who still lacks a bit of experience. (Hamilton is a complete oddity here; a bit like a modern day Jim Clark: his technical feedback is very personalised and sometimes ambiguous, due to his ability to drive around 'problems'. Incidentally, this is one area where he and the team are definitely benefiting from Button's excellent technical ability).

Back to Senna, you mention that he "has not had a proper chance yet…" but I base my assessment not on the car he was driving but the way he drove it. He made lots of mistakes and was not consistent with his lap times or even the positioning of the car from lap to lap, by which I mean he did not look especially expert at setting up his car from corner to corner (from a purely driving point of view). In F1, this should be a 'given' but Senna 'B' sometimes looked like an enthusiastic semi-pro, i.e. rather 'scruffy'. I honestly believe that the only reason his career resulted in a Grand Prix drive was because of his name. As far as I am aware, throughout his career he has been given the very best opportunity from helpful and hopeful sponsors; and on paper at least, this is a significant advantage over his rivals.

P.S. I'm not a fan (or critic) of any driver in particular, although I hope I appreciate some of the differences between them. But ultimately I still have an opinion which can of course be as wrong as anyone's!
:smile:
Good luck to Bruno - along with the others I've perhaps been rather dismissive of recently: Grosjean; Karthikeyan; Hulkenberg; Rosberg maybe? Oh, and some other German…
;)​
 
Well in Brunos defense setting consistant laptimes would be hard while getting lapped every 20 seconds and do remember that despite his age he is not an experienced driver. That is the big downside to being Ayrton Senna's nephew. Brunos career lost crucial time after his death. A lack of setup expertise you mentioned would have to be expected under those conditions.

I think this sums up the name situation well.
Bruno's surname was always going to be a mixed blessing. It could open doors, but it could also lead cynical team bosses to close them more quickly if they felt the name was all he had going for him
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cosicave said:
This is the $6 million question few people ever ask but there is a point which escapes many people…
If the average non-racer was put in a passenger seat and prevented from seeing who was driving, they would not be able to tell the difference between the fastest and the slowest drivers in F1, even if they might detect a difference in style (which is far easier to notice in a road car). Karthikeyan is the slowest of today's F1 drivers, but even he is included in this statement.

The difference between fastest and slowest is in the order of 1%. Thus a lap time of 1:20 by Karthikeyan could theoretically be brought down to 1:19.2 by Hamilton/Vettel/Alonso and Button (when he gets the car in its sweet spot). However, normally the differences between team mates are down to less than 0.5%.
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Thanks Cosi, I think it is all too easy to attribute a far larger difference between the top and the bottom than is realistic. The cars actually do most of the flattering. As you say, Karthikayen is still an extremely talented driver when considered against us normo's, he's just not as talented as the top dogs.

To be up to date with current affairs - I'd liken Karthikayen to Andy Murray. He is at the top of the game, an exceptional player. However when compared against Nadal/Federer or even Djokovic, he is missing something. (now i've said this, I have hopes he will go on to win Wimbledon). Maybe that's harsh on Murray, he might be more of a Massa....
 
I remember reading this article a few years ago about Bruno Senna which I think is good and pretty much sum him and his situation up.

A legendary name returned to the cockpit of a Formula 1 car at the recent Barcelona test, when GP2 star Bruno Senna - nephew of the late, great Ayrton - was given his first proper F1 test as part of Honda's driver evaluation exercise for 2009.

In his latest feature for itv.com/f1, Mark Hughes explains why it would be wrong to assume that Senna is only in the running because of his family history, and in fact is a genuinely exciting talent whose achievements so far belie his inexperience.

But he also argues that the incumbent veteran whose drive is in jeopardy, Rubens Barrichello, still has a lot to offer.


Bruno Senna pronounced himself satisfied with his Honda test earlier in the week after pounding around for a full day alongside Jenson Button.

This followed a similar test the day before with Senna's fellow Brazilian and GP2 rival Lucas di Grassi.

They were each given plenty of running, two new sets of tyres and on comparable fuel loads to Button. For the record Senna was 0.3s off Button on the day, di Grassi 0.5s.

They are in effect being auditioned for the 2009 race seat alongside Button, potentially replacing Rubens Barrichello.

Some have questioned why Senna, a driver that failed to win titles in either F3 or GP2, warrants such opportunities - implying that he's there only because of the drawing power of his surname, the family link to his late great uncle Ayrton and of course the fabulous history between Ayrton and Honda.

But that's grossly unfair.

Whilst it's undoubtedly true that the name has helped create opportunities, that it potentially makes any team he drives for a very attractive proposition for sponsors, his progress as a driver in the few short years he's been racing has been extremely impressive.

Bruno had just begun kart racing as an eight year old when Ayrton died. A year later Bruno's father was killed in a motorcycle accident and at Viviane Senna's understandable insistence, Bruno's racing activities were halted. Apparently permanently.

At 20, old enough to decide his own destiny, he announced he was going to take up motor racing, much to the family's surprise.

After a few exploratory events in Brazil he moved to the UK in 2004, competed in a handful of Formula BMW and Renault events before making the big jump to F3.

Into the second half of the season he was scoring podium finishes and he followed it up in 2005 with runner-up position in the British championship.

This is way more impressive than it sounds. Virtually every one of the guys he was racing against there had a decade or more of racing experience, most of them in karts by the time they were 10.

Bruno was still learning aspects of racing when he was in F3 that most of these guys had picked up as kids.

Furthermore, the step up to the grip of an F3 car from the nursery formulae is enormous.

Jacques Villeneuve made a similar step back in 1990, moving into the Italian F3 series with very little previous experience - and was hopelessly, and understandably, off the pace. Only in his second year of the formula did Jacques even begin to look competitive.

Bruno adapted much quicker than Jacques, who went onto become a world champion. So let's not be too hasty.

It was a similar story as Bruno moved up to GP2 in 2007.

One and a bit seasons in F3 and virtually nothing else would not really be considered adequate preparation for the very serious power and grip of a GP2 car that is actually more physically demanding than an F1 machine.

He wasn't initially a front-runner but he was quick at times and you could see him evolving almost by the race.

He was always very quick in the wet, and had taken some very impressive wet-weather victories in F3 - a sure sign that there is a good level of talent underlying a driver's performances.

Into 2008 and he was always a front-runner, fighting for the title from beginning to end.

The guy is still developing at a faster rate than those around him - for very obvious reasons.

That's not to say his ultimate ceiling will necessarily be higher, but what we do know is that even still on a steep learning curve he's already one of the fastest guys outside of F1, and that after just his fourth season of racing of any kind he can lap an F1 car competitively.

On that basis alone, he's an exciting prospect, regardless of his surname.

But spare a thought for the guy he could be replacing, a driver who'd already been in F1 a year when eight-year old Bruno had his first kart race, yet who this year was still performing as well as he's ever done.

Barrichello has a more adaptable driving s_tyle than Button, allowing him to drive around a bad car's problems better.

He's also very, very good at analysing the dynamics of a car and enabled Honda to learn things Button hadn't uncovered.

That latter skill has been a bit wasted with the awful cars Honda has provided with for the past two years, but it just might be a very valuable trait next year, with the first design presided over by Ross Brawn.

For this reason, the team will have probably been paying very close attention to the quality of Senna's feedback during his test.

Di Grassi is renowned for his great analytical approach and it can be taken as read he will have passed that test with flying colours.

Senna's a bright, intelligent guy, totally immersed in his racing, and it would be surprising indeed if he hadn't also passed the technical test.

See what odds you can get for him getting that drive - and put your money down.
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I waited a long time to comment on this thread, Not because I could be asked, but because I was shocked. Ricciardo should stay at Toro Rosso and just get FPs. HRT is a **** car and he is going to really ruin his rep if he can't beat Luizzi.
 
I think it's the best case so far for Daniel, he's getting more F1 experience rather than just being a test driver now, he will also do a whole weekend rather than 1 hour on a Friday. I'm sure he's not fussed it's a HRT, yes it's very likely that he won't be able to show much, but that's not the point he needs the experience for next season to replace whoever effectively.
 
Well it will be interesting to see how this move works our for Ricciardo, and who knows if it does benefit him then maybe HRT and Virgin can almost turn themselves into sort of feeder teams that provide seats for drivers to get experience before going into a bigger team.
 
I hope he does well. He's a promising talent, and it would be a shame if he couldn't realise his potential.
 
I'm not sure if I actually said this but I totally agree that it is much better to take any opportunity when it comes.

Waiting for a 'better day' is a mistake. Opportunity usually only comes along once so grab it by the horns with both hands and don't look back. Besides, the 'better day' is just as likely to be a better day for others too…
 
HRT said they hope this is the first step in a long relationship with RBR. so what does that mean?
 
They've already got Willis, who used to work for red bull. May not be as ridiculous as it sounds, Webber going there. If geoff can sort out next years car, they could easily move up the grid, no matter what their budget may be. Look at Brawn, no budget but the car was great. If they improve sufficiently, they could attract a developement driver, such as webber.
 
Cowboyfromhell said:
Look at Brawn, no budget but the car was great. If they improve sufficiently, they could attract a developement driver, such as webber.
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Not picking on your words cowboy, but HRT's situation for money is a lot different from what Brawn had.

When Brawn bought Honda, Honda have invested had money in the car, reports of £90 million, and paid for the team up till march. HRT on the other hand, have hardly any investors, and have logos on the side of the car looking like sponsorship, but really says This could be you or This is a cool spot.
 
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