plus 3 of the tests had sell out 5 day crowds to the delight of the hosting counties .
RHC's Cricket Thread
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They are but in the end theres a cliff to fall off here and we don't really know where it is.
A 30 year old, theres no cliff just yet, but at 41? Well lets put it this way, he's not steaming in delivering 85mph and swing and seam is he? not right now.
The question is to look forward in time
India away in january, I'd in general agree. Should he even think about going or not. Its more spin but there is a role there. and to be honest theres a load of limited overs cricket to play where woakes and wood might be bowled out etc.
West indies at home then, the former best side is now just about the worst side. then Sri lanka who again are not top line talent. thats 6 tests total for anderson to get ready for.
Wuold england not be "better" using next years tests as development? that'd be a harsh thing and they really paid badly for it last year with root doing the same and ending up losing. Maybe he'd be in the squads but i could see him start 4 or the 6 tests and then retire.
The more i think about it the more i kind of expect that.
they certainly tried to win that last test. I just think their tactic was " in football terms" to keep it tight first half and then go trying nick it.
In theory though the way this is being played england are making this about a 3.5 day test not a 5 day so you might get more crowds in but you ought to be refnding quite a lot. How many times did england go past 90 overs per innings this series as a question?
- May 22, 2011
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Yeah I expect they’ll probably give him a couple of games. Next summer is a long way away and it would be nice if he could do a broad and announce his retirement and go out with an incredible reception.
It’s not a contradiction
It’s understanding what winning is to the Aussies
They won. End of
No amount of talk about how entertaining we were means anything to majority of Australians
The mentality in this country allows for that differential
It’s what sets them apart
I apologise if I haven’t explained it succinctly makes perfect sense to me and there is no contradiction.
You are correct some on here prefer the entertainment to the result - think Saint is one
but be under no illusion
England lost in the eyes of the majority of Australians - I understand it was a draw but the rules state that means the Ashes go back with the team that arrived with them
No amount of Yeah but we were the more entertaining changes that.
2015 and counting since we last won them
And it’s 86/87 since we last won them in Australia
I was merely discussing the mentality of the Aussies.
we appear to be satisfied with playing the better cricket whilst the record books show the Ashes when back to Oz
not saying which I agree with just there is a massive difference in attitude to sport in general
on the football version would you rather win the CL final and PL title having won a lot of games 1-0
Or get knocked out in semi final having played great football and finishing 4th in league but having had some cracking 3-3 draws ?
I not saying which is right just trying to explain what is in my head
- May 22, 2011
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I clearly not explaining myself
I have said they drew on more than one occasion above
who are the ashes with currently
The mentality you are showing actually underlines the difference
England should not be happy with entertainment and a draw
The mistakes were made in the first few tests
did they do the best they could afterwards - yes
But the still don’t have the ashes end of no matter how you want to wrap it up
As the ashes were already retained you have no idea how the last two tests would have gone had the Aussies not already retained
As I said I posted the draw but a few times already
You must know that as it in the post above
You didn’t answer the question I asked you direct either
No idea why
Figuring you must be wanting something from this
I was only commenting on the difference between the differing mentality between the two nations
- May 22, 2011
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Your original point was that they have a winning mentality win at all costs etc, but then stated that they couldn’t be bothered in the last game.
Can’t have it both ways.
either they couldn’t be bothered (and don’t believe that is the case as they had a chance to do something s generation of Australians haven’t done and win a series in England) or they did want to win in which case we beat them in a crucial game.
Remember we would have likely won in Manchester as well. That goes 2-2. Well never know if 5th test ended same way if that was the case. But we essentially both won 2 games and we got a winning draw in the other.
We did that while also playing entertaining cricket.
for the players, maybe it didn’t matter. Maybe retaining (not winning) the ashes was enough but I have this arguement with fans about football. What does a trophy do for a fan? It gives a bit of bragging rights over other fans for a day/week? You didn’t do anything to earn it so can’t really brag. Just happen to pick that team/born in that successful country.
Sport for fans is a form of entertainment. England pushed the games along and entertained us for the vast majority of those 25 days and in grand scheme of things for fans, that’s all that matters.
If every team played at a run rate of 2 and over, every man on boundary and bowling bouncers, test cricket would be dead within a year. The notion of test cricket will be there for the purists but it has trouble attracting new fans but England this series have got people that don’t like cricket talking about it.
that is a win no matter how you look at it
- May 22, 2011
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And to answer the question about football 1-0 etc.
If you played entertaining football and won 1-0 every game brilliant. If you played absolute full football and won every game 1-0, would be great at end of season to have a title triumph and that 10 mins of euphoria. But if it happened constantly I’d prob not be fussed about missing live games and happily just watch the odd highlight and be happy, but 90 mins of passing sidewards with no shots then someone scoring s free kick would get tedious.
I watch sport for entertainment. Not to brag over other people who happen to support a different team. 99% of clubs don’t win anything, but fans go to games anyway to be entertained. And in football that’s playing nice exciting football. At test cricket, that’s doing unexpected things, taking risks etc. not plodding along leaving ball for 5/6 balls and then knocking a single for 90 overs.
If you played entertaining football and won 1-0 every game brilliant. If you played absolute full football and won every game 1-0, would be great at end of season to have a title triumph and that 10 mins of euphoria. But if it happened constantly I’d prob not be fussed about missing live games and happily just watch the odd highlight and be happy, but 90 mins of passing sidewards with no shots then someone scoring s free kick would get tedious.
I watch sport for entertainment. Not to brag over other people who happen to support a different team. 99% of clubs don’t win anything, but fans go to games anyway to be entertained. And in football that’s playing nice exciting football. At test cricket, that’s doing unexpected things, taking risks etc. not plodding along leaving ball for 5/6 balls and then knocking a single for 90 overs.
Will try this one again
I meant you if you were playing
What would you rather do
Entertain or win ?
not bothered about the fan side
It’s about mentality
as for Aussies and ashes
once they had retained they could not give a stuff
They aren’t bothered about the series win the trophy is coming home (to them) it’s how they are brought up
we lost (because we drew) the ashes
Because the ashes have been lifted by australia so they are the winners - we lost by playing entertaining cricket
I would have been certain if we had won the rain effected game - you would have seen a totally different side in one of the last two games
prob the fourth test
The attitudes are very different
I don’t seem to be able to put it into words but everything you are saying proves it more
And I sort of not disagreeing with you nor am I giving my opinion
let’s see what happens at their gaff. Even the Aussies football team gave us a headache
Men and Women
It’s even harder when it’s us
not saying they are going to win everything just their mentality to sport is different
They - imho - are mentality wise - stronger than us
we can jump on emotions of crowd to pull us through
Right now
What do you think the score will be in Oz
I think we will be lucky to win one - no matter who goes
But it’s just an opinion
I only discussing it because I am giving the wrong message out but don’t know how to explain it
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- May 22, 2011
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Will try this one again
I meant you if you were playing
What would you rather do
Entertain or win ?
not bothered about the fan side
It’s about mentality
as for Aussies and ashes
once they had retained they could not give a stuff
They aren’t bothered about the series win the trophy is coming home (to them) it’s how they are brought up
we lost (because we drew) the ashes
Because the ashes have been lifted by australia so they are the winners - we lost by playing entertaining cricket
I would have been certain if we had won the rain effected game - you would have seen a totally different side in one of the last two games
prob the fourth test
The attitudes are very different
I don’t seem to be able to put it into words but everything you are saying proves it more
And I sort of not disagreeing with you nor am I giving my opinion
let’s see what happens at their gaff. Even the Aussies football team gave us a headache
Men and Women
It’s even harder when it’s us
not saying they are going to win everything just their mentality to sport is different
They - imho - are mentality wise - stronger than us
we can jump on emotions of crowd to pull us through
Right now
What do you think the score will be in Oz
I think we will be lucky to win one - no matter who goes
But it’s just an opinion
I only discussing it because I am giving the wrong message out but don’t know how to explain it
Couldn't disagree more but leave it at that as going round in circles.
It’s not really going in circles I just can’t articulate exactly what I want to and you won’t answer directly
I am just trying to establish which way you would go
Would you want to win or entertain ?
as the answer to that shows your mentality
I can only assume from your answer of - you watch to be entertained not to brag - that you would play to entertain and be satisfied with that
what I have said from the start is that the Aussies goal was to return back home with the ashes
Anything less is a loss to them
you have tried to distort the win at all costs mentality - I think
It’s actually very simple
who holds the ashes right now
once they had retained they didn’t need to win
we did
We had to prove a measure of success from the Baz all stuff
We are seeking solace in the fact we played better stuff
when in actual fact we didn’t
We drew
We were equal
However the ashes were retained by Australia
Therefore we have actually lost - no matter how pedantic you want to be and many in the papers seemed very happy with that
Which was where I started - our mentality is different
Not saying which I believe is right but it was not a contradiction imho
It’s that simple
- May 22, 2011
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You can do both. England entertained and won. Only reason didn’t win the series was party due to weather in Manchester ruining 2 days.
Going round in circles because you don’t put any significance on the series. It’s only England v Australia where this ‘ashes’ trophy is up for grabs but a series win is still important and it’s only the way they changed the rules so holders retain it if a draw rather than share the it.
A series win is important. You don’t think it is therefore we will go round in circles.
And we didn’t lose. What ever way you want to look at it. We either drew. Or we failed to win back the ashes. But you can’t lose something you didn’t have.
As I said above
I am not overly disagreeing with you
but I have got to reply to this
So sorry but it is a debate site lol
You can do both. You can but we didn’t - we entertained and drew England entertained and won. They didn’t they lost two and won two and many complained about the entertainment factor in the two we lost Only reason didn’t win the series was party due to weather in Manchester ruining 2 days. You cannot say that with any certainty- wasn’t the twisty nature of this series one of the thrills ? You can guess we may have won but after that everything COULD have gone differently as it’s a different timeline
Reality is it was 2-2.
Going round in circles because you don’t put any significance on the series. I have not said this - I trying not to give my opinion on that but as I was only pointing out the mentality difference between us and Aussies It’s only England v Australia where this ‘ashes’ trophy is up for grabs but a series win is still important and it’s only the way they changed the rules so holders retain it if a draw rather than share the it. But they are the rules so therefore the Aussies retained the ashes - which they see as a win (my point). We on the other hand are celebrating glorious failure to win back the ashes
A series win is important. You don’t think it is therefore we will go round in circles.
We won’t cause I am not saying anything about a series win - I am saying the Aussie mentality sees this as a win - and IF we had won at Old Trafford - the series probably plays out differently- but because the Aussies had retained they probably tried some stuff - didn’t work so they weren’t arsed. They WON both tests when it was needed.
And we didn’t lose. I have agreed that loads it was a draw BUT we did not regain the ashes - we drew but that meant the trophy was lost. What ever way you want to look at it. We either drew. Or we failed to win back the ashes. But you can’t lose something you didn’t have. You are sort of right and as I have said I wasn’t arguing that as such I was arguing the Aussie mentality sees it as a win - we in England (you right now) don’t
Which takes me right back to what I was trying to explain
simply put The Aussies retained the ashes and we are celebrating our style and form and didn’t retain the ashes
the bold wasn’t to be rude but to answer
I think you have proved what I am saying about the English mentality
Not sure if I have shown it but I know what I mean
anyway sorry for riling you if I have I am not trying to
I am more annoyed with myself that I can’t articulate what I mean
I find myself very frustrating
Sorry for taking up your time but not sorry enough I can leave it alone lol - no idea what that’s about
It’s right up there with Mane Ederson for me lmao
I am not overly disagreeing with you
but I have got to reply to this
So sorry but it is a debate site lol
You can do both. You can but we didn’t - we entertained and drew England entertained and won. They didn’t they lost two and won two and many complained about the entertainment factor in the two we lost Only reason didn’t win the series was party due to weather in Manchester ruining 2 days. You cannot say that with any certainty- wasn’t the twisty nature of this series one of the thrills ? You can guess we may have won but after that everything COULD have gone differently as it’s a different timeline
Reality is it was 2-2.
Going round in circles because you don’t put any significance on the series. I have not said this - I trying not to give my opinion on that but as I was only pointing out the mentality difference between us and Aussies It’s only England v Australia where this ‘ashes’ trophy is up for grabs but a series win is still important and it’s only the way they changed the rules so holders retain it if a draw rather than share the it. But they are the rules so therefore the Aussies retained the ashes - which they see as a win (my point). We on the other hand are celebrating glorious failure to win back the ashes
A series win is important. You don’t think it is therefore we will go round in circles.
We won’t cause I am not saying anything about a series win - I am saying the Aussie mentality sees this as a win - and IF we had won at Old Trafford - the series probably plays out differently- but because the Aussies had retained they probably tried some stuff - didn’t work so they weren’t arsed. They WON both tests when it was needed.
And we didn’t lose. I have agreed that loads it was a draw BUT we did not regain the ashes - we drew but that meant the trophy was lost. What ever way you want to look at it. We either drew. Or we failed to win back the ashes. But you can’t lose something you didn’t have. You are sort of right and as I have said I wasn’t arguing that as such I was arguing the Aussie mentality sees it as a win - we in England (you right now) don’t
Which takes me right back to what I was trying to explain
simply put The Aussies retained the ashes and we are celebrating our style and form and didn’t retain the ashes
the bold wasn’t to be rude but to answer
I think you have proved what I am saying about the English mentality
Not sure if I have shown it but I know what I mean
anyway sorry for riling you if I have I am not trying to
I am more annoyed with myself that I can’t articulate what I mean
I find myself very frustrating
Sorry for taking up your time but not sorry enough I can leave it alone lol - no idea what that’s about
It’s right up there with Mane Ederson for me lmao
personally I think the aussies will be disappointed they didn't win the test and did try to win the test.
it really think they had a plan from test 1 to really sit back off England and let them make the errors. in the first test they put everyone back, very few slips and hoped for England to get themselves out.
their side had some pretty slow players and some players who did score but they also had to carry Warner.
in the end they won test 1 due to England declaring early and not having the bowling to take the wickets.
they won test 2 off a rapid score by Marsh. again it was close.
they lost test 3 because England had more bowling added.
test 4 they should have lost due to massive England innings but rain blew it. aussies couldn't get the English out on full attack and got skittled a bit
test 5 imo they will regret deciding to pay really really anti cricket on their first innings after getting England out half reasonably.
they had England there for the taking but woakes and alli changed the narrative.
4 of the 5 tests could have been won by either side really. they were changed by key moments either by one batsman or bowlers or drops.
the 5th was not even close but rain stopped play.
it really think they had a plan from test 1 to really sit back off England and let them make the errors. in the first test they put everyone back, very few slips and hoped for England to get themselves out.
their side had some pretty slow players and some players who did score but they also had to carry Warner.
in the end they won test 1 due to England declaring early and not having the bowling to take the wickets.
they won test 2 off a rapid score by Marsh. again it was close.
they lost test 3 because England had more bowling added.
test 4 they should have lost due to massive England innings but rain blew it. aussies couldn't get the English out on full attack and got skittled a bit
test 5 imo they will regret deciding to pay really really anti cricket on their first innings after getting England out half reasonably.
they had England there for the taking but woakes and alli changed the narrative.
4 of the 5 tests could have been won by either side really. they were changed by key moments either by one batsman or bowlers or drops.
the 5th was not even close but rain stopped play.
- May 22, 2011
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Glenn MgGrath says it….
Of course, Australia will be disappointed to lose.
They will have been in the dressing room on Monday night feeling flat because they came here to win the urn not just to retain it.
Of course, Australia will be disappointed to lose.
They will have been in the dressing room on Monday night feeling flat because they came here to win the urn not just to retain it.
Ffs
They didn’t look too upset at the presentation
What Glen saying btw
Exactly what I would say if asked
You just don’t get it it
The Aussies are Sat all dejected and sad because they have not won the Ashes - the urn has gone back to Oz and they were not out celebrating the other night lols
But we are celebrating not regaining the ashes as though we won
it’s bonkers - no matter how good we were
We didn’t even win the series either lmao
if that doesn’t prove what I am saying - I give up
