Reality hits home

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ninian opinion

ninian opinion

Well-Known Member
Jan 31, 2011
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Disappointed but not in the slightest bit surprised.

Last night illustrated firstly just how average, pedestrian, lack lustre and predictable this season's side City is and secondly that City have a manager who is just incapable at this level..

City made it so easy for a well organised, athletic, more mobile and well managed Hull City team. aside for the fact that Huddlestone & Diami are too good for this league.

The problem lies IMO with the manager. He must have known how Hull would set up. 3 centre backs had an easy evening coping with Mason (who looked way out of his league) and Jones who spent most of the game however in midfield.

Slade surely had to start with if not one then both wide pacemen and Malone and Fabio as wing backs. Time after time City just passed it back in their own half, then pumped it up for the Hull defence to easily cope with. What do Pilkington and Mason offer the team? (Yes they each scored last game but that does not make up for their general ineffectiveness over the season so far)

There are too many faults in this City set up. We all know the lack of pace in central midfield are lack of a proper no 10 are issues but last night saw IMO the poor management again by Slade in his team selection, and set up. Why didn't Ameobi start? Why didn't he come on at least at half time? Why is Whittingham so deep? Why did he take Connelly off (must have been injured surely as he is one of our best footballers)?

City may well go and win at Rotherham and then Charlton but that would only be indicative of the opposition. When City play the more athletic, quick teams with PL quality players, then like last night they will be easily cast aside. The only way to combat those teams would e to have manager who has some football knowledge in how to set his team up to cope with better teams.
 
I think that's too harsh on last nights efforts.

We passed the ball as well as we have in recent (2/3 season memory). We dominated possession and asked lots of questions. Unfortunately Hull's 3 cb's had all the answers, they were superb.
Fabio should not be moved from left back, he was much less effectively when shifted to the right on Saturday. He was our best player by a country mile last night. Him and Ralls can be a real weapon down our left they linked beautifully.

Loads of penalty shouts, the high foot stood out to be as cast iron. I know the family stand reacted to KWJ being held first half too. That's the difference between a great night and a disappointing one. I see on another thread Sparks draws a comparison to Hull's last visit. Last time Hull destroyed us and we were absolutely clueless. Last night they mugged us. It was a very effective mugging but there were far too many positives for me to throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The fact a side with that quality required that type of tactics and performance to get a result despite the number of top quality players in their ranks is a positive. Bruce's negativity was rewarded but a little bit of luck and Ref with the balls to give a pen could have seen a very different outcome.
 
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Agree Steve, Fabio was outstanding yet again last night. Then again, Lee Peltier had a decent game also. The only negatives I can really pick on come from our forwards, Mason being to slow, and Jones being out muscled.

We all knew last night was going to be tough, and Hull have spent big money in the summer, so to come away and say 'we deserved SOMETHING from that game' leaves me with optimism I haven't had since our promotion season.
 
It's also ironic that we take off our one of our 2 high performing midfielders - Ralls (why not Mason?), that leaves a space in the middle of the park which they used well on the break and scored their second.

I know Mason has scored 3 in 7 games but, as I have said before, he is not as quick as we need for someone in that position and his first touch is not always of the standard needed. I look forward to Saadi getting match fit and given an opportunity.
 
I think the dilemma for Slade was how to get Ameobi and Noone into the action though.

Mason has been pretty clinical in recent games and KWJ was the only chance we had of out muscling one of their cb's or beating them to the header. I know he didn't but we have to acknowledge the logic in leaving such an obvious target on for a game we dominated.
Likewise Mason was as likely as anyone (based on past experience) to get on the end of something.

How deep Hull were sitting meant bringing on Ameobi up front was probably a non starter as looks best with a bit of grass to move into. I thought Ralls had faded a little after a brilliant performance with huge work rate. It was a very difficult situation, more attacking players to offer something different were required, but the ones there looked like they might produce and overall we were playing well.
It's not very often I sit in the stand and say I don't know what I'd do if I was in charge.

If we play like that in every one of our remaining homes games we'll enjoy a great season. Not many sides will bring that quality of defender, that well organised and hopefully we won't see that **** of a ref for a while too.
 
It's true we'll play worse this season and win but that's not the point. There are other sides we're yet to meet that'll need breaking down in the same way as Hull and we showed no sign at all of doing that last night.

The three CB system is pretty unusual at this level but Bruce employs it almost exclusively away from home. It was obvious that we had no plan in the locker going into the game (nor players to be honest) to counter it. Jones tried to pull them out by playing deeper but you need pace through and behind them if the plan works - it didn't and we were left with a 3-man brick wall to play through.

We can blame Slade for being too wrapped up in his own ideas to be more radical and to be fair we do - he must take responsibility as well as the recent plaudits when we've won - but the stark fact still seems to be that we lack versatility and pace through midfield and in attack. Until these areas are addressed I fear we'll see more games like that, although we will of course win our share against less effective sides this season.

The real point is are we good enough to finish top 6 with what we've got?
 
If we play like that I'm certain we'll finish top 6.

It could be argued that 2 very good penalty shouts and a post hit first half we needed a bit more luck rather than poor tactics. Hull on the other hand had their one bit of decent attacking play 1st half rewarded by a deflected clearance dropping perfectly to the only other Hull player in the box.

The second goal was borderline offside, but regardless Manga was at fault. He was drawn in and easily beaten a few times, Connolly should be reinstated if fit.

If we watch us struggle to score against a number of teams I'll admit we have an issue, but yesterday just felt like one of those days to me.
 
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Jay-RedeCCFC said:
It certainly worked for you mate <ok>
Click to expand...

It needed to, we were terrible in the last two away's at Charlton and Brighton.

We played 3-5-2 last season, despite having two very good full-backs, then we flogged/released them in the summer, but switched to 4-4-2 for this season, despite having players who were only really good as wing-backs. We've been rather baffled by the change in formation, when we didn't have the players that suited it and most of us have been calling for a return to 3-5-2.

After last night, hopefully we'll stick with it.

I thought you looked decent, you're not going to come up against the likes of Dawson, Huddlestone, Diame, Aluko and Hernandez every week, so I don't think you've got too much to worry about. <ok>
 
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I stand corrected scooter - I should just have said "often" rather than "exclusively" based upon my past experience of Bruce's setups in previous seasons. <ok>

The fact remains that we could not counter it and lost the game fair and square despite the positive spin put on it.

I fail to see how our rigid tactical decisions combined with a lack of pace in our side is going to overcome teams like Hull who are adept at their own game.
 
originallambrettaman said:
It needed to, we were terrible in the last two away's at Charlton and Brighton.

We played 3-5-2 last season, despite having two very good full-backs, then we flogged/released them in the summer, but switched to 4-4-2 for this season, despite having players who were only really good as wing-backs. We've been rather baffled by the change in formation, when we didn't have the players that suited it and most of us have been calling for a return to 3-5-2.

After last night, hopefully we'll stick with it.

I thought you looked decent, you're not going to come up against the likes of Dawson, Huddlestone, Diame, Aluko and Hernandez every week, so I don't think you've got too much to worry about. <ok>
Click to expand...

Did you make the trip bud? Fair play to your lot for turning up <ok>

We were better last night than we have been most of the season thus far. We just couldn't put the ball in the net. All the best to you guys too, I think you will be there or there about.
 
Jay-RedeCCFC said:
Did you make the trip bud? Fair play to your lot for turning up <ok>

We were better last night than we have been most of the season thus far. We just couldn't put the ball in the net. All the best to you guys too, I think you will be there or there about.
Click to expand...

I didn't, I was so pissed off with how poor we were at Charlton, that I decided to give Brighton a miss and then announced a beam back for last night's game, so 660 of us watched it at the KC. It was a live feed you provided and it was a bit weird having 660 of us watching a game with no sound, but it was a decent laugh and I hope we do it again. Particularly as the morons who schedule the fixtures have us doing additional midweek games at Ipswich and Brentford. <doh>
 
Have to say I disagree with just about everything in the original post.

I thought we played very well. Passed and moved the ball quickly and were unlucky to lose.

Enjoyed the game we just lacked that final ball and we lacked the pace to get behind them. It could well have been a different story if we hadnt conceded a sloppy goal so early. Hull will be one of the best sides we play.

Forget 2 pacy widemen that wont work unless we drop a striker. We were exposed when Ralls was subbed for Noone.

If Ameobi can get his fitness up then he may be the right option to start up front. I dont see any place in the starting line up for Noone in a 442.

All game we tried to play the ball on the deck. Fabio immense and Ralls is the key midfielder in this system. He should not have been subbed.

If wed played Ameobi and Noone wide in a 442 we would have been hammered. We had their wing backs pinned back and were little threat all game until those 2 were in those positions and suddenly we were short in the middle and vulnerable.

We are not far off being a very good side. If Tan really wants a shot at promotion he should give Slade the money to get someone with pace like Frazier Campbell on loan.

I wanted Slade Out. Hes winning me over. Very positive after last night.
 
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Hilts24 said:
Have to say I disagree with just about everything in the original post.

I thought we played very well. Passed and moved the ball quickly and were unlucky to lose.

Enjoyed the game we just lacked that final ball and we lacked the pace to get behind them. It could well have been a different story if we hadnt conceded a sloppy goal so early. Hull will be one of the best sides we play.

Forget 2 pacy widemen that wont work unless we drop a striker. We were exposed when Ralls was subbed for Noone.

If Ameobi can get his fitness up then he may be the right option to start up front. I dont see any place in the starting line up for Noone in a 442.

All game we tried to play the ball on the deck. Fabio immense and Ralls is the key midfielder in this system. He should not have been subbed.

If wed played Ameobi and Noone wide in a 442 we would have been hammered. We had their wing backs pinned back and were little threat all game until those 2 were in those positions and suddenly we were short in the middle and vulnerable.

We are not far off being a very good side. If Tan really wants a shot at promotion he should give Slade the money to get someone with pace like Frazier Campbell on loan.

I wanted Slade Out. Hes winning me over. Very positive after last night.
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Agree pretty much word for word <ok>

Whilst your opinion is changing on Slade I have to admit I was totally wrong about Fabio. I'd written him off as too rash. He's fit and playing for a football side rather than a hoof ball side he looks a world beater! He's got to be first name on the team sheet, closely followed by Ralls.
 
I've now posted elsewhere that in hindsight I was a tad harsh; it was my frustration and disappointment.<doh>

I still feel City will not be able to beat teams like Hull playing the type of game they did on Tuesday. That is something that Slade has to work out; but can he without a dynamic and creative central midfielder and number 10?
 
The key now will be taking the attitude and approach into Saturday's game. Rotherham will certainly not be up to Hull's defence and if we can keep the levels achieved we will get a good result there. The temptation to lump everything up to KWJ must be resisted. Just a thought, how about starting Ameobi instead of Mason? Could be a fluid 4 - 5 - 1 with Ameobi getting up to support KWJ at every possibility.
 
But Bfb is Ameobi fit enough for that role yet? He certainly will be after a couple more games but at the moment I think he is still feeling his way in. He looked spent after ten mins against Huddersfield. He actually looked like he could pass the football against Hull, which he hadn't shown in the games leading up to that.
 
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