You spout so much bollocks that I can't be bothered to make the effort to reason with you. The facts speak for themselves, it seems just about everybody but you can see that!..
Qatar 2022
- Thread starter Wandering Yid
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You spout so much bollocks that I can't be bothered to make the effort to reason with you. The facts speak for themselves, it seems just about everybody but you can see that!..
that's about as well constructed an argument as i would have expected to be honest.
out of interest, would you say that having heard people talk about a newspaper article about construction in the middle east, makes you more expert about construction in the middle east than someone who personally worked on more than a dozen projects in the middle east including some of the most iconic projects in the region, and who lived there for more than 3 years, or would you say that it makes you less expert than that person ?
anyway, there's **** all point in arguing about it. if you're interested in the subject and want a heads up from someone who has been out there then you can take my points on board. you can believe what you want to believe i suppose though at the end of the day. as can anyone else. makes no difference either way tbh.
Well I'm glad you guys have got that out of your system. Can we return to talking about Qatar 2022 now, arguments are a bit boring to read 
I have been to the area several times on business, but never lived there. I do not pretend to be an expert on construction projects, nor do I think I have to be in this case. Essentially, this has little to do with anything apart from the fact that hundreds, if not thousands of foreign workers are being treated as slaves, virtually held prisoner, and are dying at the rate of one a day, due to the inhumane way they are being treated. That is a matter of basic human rights, and **** all to do with being an expert on middle eastern construction projects!!..
That's pretty much what my point was.
The dying at the rate of 1 a day stat is misleading though, as that is not to be unexpected for a group over a million people. That does not appear indicate that they are subject to any particularly extraordinary risks.
What we were arguing about, as I understood it, was whether labourers worked very hard in the middle east (hard enough to die as a result). That was the point which my knowledge of the construction industry was relevant to.
I know that that is not the case. I don't disagree though that there are issues which could be addressed however.
While I think it is unarguable that Nepali and other immigrant workers are treated badly in Qatar, RobSpur is right about the statistic. I have a horrible feeling that the death rate reported might even be lower than that for a similar group of Nepali's in their home country. I've not been able to find that out though.
so you are claiming most of the work is mechanised. Yet several pages back you claimed these workers were the unskilled workers. Surely to operate mechanised equipment they would have to be skilled.
Those workers reportedly dying of heart failure are doing so because the bosses are denying them the basic right of access to drinking water while working in extreme conditions.
Your continual ability to deny what human rights abuse has been reported in a national newspaper makes me think you must be one of those in a position of power and overseeing that these poor migrant workers are subjected to being treated like slave labour.
To be fair RobSpur has pointed out that you need to know the normal death rate from heart attacks in Nepalis to actually know whether the Guardian article stands up. They wouldn't be the first national newspaper to make unsupported claims from data. I've tried to find the data and can't but on the back of an envelope getting one death a day from a group of 400,000 people might well be close to the normal number.
Those exact figures were also quoted in The Sunday Times - hardly a hotbed of left wing radicals!
The simple fact is that migrant workers are not only dropping like flies, due to maltreatment. They are basically being held prisoner. Their passports withdrawn, and even in they had them, their wages are so miserly, that they couldn't afford to leave anyway!
This is nothing more than abuse on a grand scale of these people by a nation who can well afford to make treat them as human beings, not beasts of burden! It's disgrace, and if FIFA will do nothing, then major footballing nations should stand up, have some balls, and withdraw from this farce of a tournament.
You don't seem to understand the point that myself and Powerspurs have made.
That point is that the amount of deaths of 1 a day is not to be unexpected in a population of over 1 million, and is probably at least as high as the death rate in the labourers' home countries. 1 person in 1.2million dieing every day is not an indication of anything out of the ordinary, and is not an indication that they are facing any unusual risks to their health and safety. Whilst there is an issue with regards to workers' rights, the fact that some people have died in Qatar is a red herring. People die in all countries in the world, and the Qatari government do not have the power to stop people dieing within their territory. Believe it or not, Qataris die too, as do labourers in other countries and as do people who aren't labourers at all.
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So, some 350-400 people all die working on the same project, in the same country, all by coincidence? How you cannot accept that these people are being used and abused by a dictatorship who can well afford to put an end to this completely unnecessary human carnage, is completely beyond me, and the vast majority of other posters on this subject.
But it's not 1.2 million is it? There are ~280k Nepalese in Qatar. The figures I saw were all Nepalese immigrants, meaning that there are probably a lot more deaths of other nationalities not in these reports.
Another piece in the guardian says up to 4000 workers could die constructing for the 2022 world cup. That is NOT a price people should be paying to hold a sporting tournament. FIFA have really ****ed up this time.
This sounds like a game of chinese whispers.
Has anyone got any actual facts that they can link on here to demonstrate that the Qatari government is responsible for unusual amounts of people dieing on building sites ?
If not then this conversation is no better than a w.i. gossip morning.
The madness of Fifa. corrupt , stupid, and on a gravy train.
(A bit like the Chavs)
International football has to be streamlined , no mickey mouse country's like ( Scotland Whoops ) San Marino , just there for a vote.
Played in hotbeds of world football .
On the Middle East , they abuse guest workers from the third world .