project big picture

[Fox Mulder]

Only the thing is, that you’ve never quite grasped what that failed takeover actually was mate. It was never a Sovereign state rolling up and buying a club lock stock as they had a plan to use it as a huge advertising hoarding. It was an investment that they’d been sold by Staveley who took nearly 2 years to convince them.

The actual investment that they were intending to make, that she openly stated was their ‘ambition’ was £250m over 5 years - £50m a year. Which was supposed to deliver a new training ground as well as investment in the team. In PL terms that’s a pebble in a pond mate. They were sold the idea of buying into Newcastle as an opportunity to make money. The fact that they walked when they did, shows that they weren’t that arsed and what was a relatively small investment with potential had become much more trouble than it was worth to them.

The point being, that you were happily selling your principles not for a pot of gold, merely a bag of beans.

Thar was to be spent on the 1st team, but there was money to be spent in the city everything. 250 million over 5 years is a huge net spend for us mate and in 5 years time what happens then? In 5 years more of Ashley what happens? Like I say I've never complained about human rights over there or to our government for funding our universities etc with the blood money, so I was happy to accept this in the same way.

 

[Tobes]

Thar was to be spent on the 1st team, but there was money to be spent in the city everything. 250 million over 5 years is a huge net spend for us mate and in 5 years time what happens then? In 5 years more of Ashley what happens? Like I say I've never complained about human rights over there or to our government for funding our universities etc with the blood money, so I was happy to accept this in the same way.

Putting £50m a season in, is relative buttons though compared to the clubs you’d have to overcome to get even close to the top 6, as that’d also have to cover increased wages. More than what you have yes, but in terms of making a genuine impact, nowhere near enough.

As for the Saudis and the moral case against them, I’ve no issue with people choosing to ignore that element if they wish, as there’s plenty of iffy money in the PL. However, what was bang out of order during that debacle was Geordies attacking those who were making representations to the PL about the human rights issues, as that was also their choice and right. For example, the trolling of Khashoggi’s fiancé and trying to discredit her and her perfectly valid point, that was about as low as it’s possible to get.

 

[haslam]

Yeah, agree with that Supermarket v Corner shop analogy. Ostensibly, the supermarkets have crushed the small business owner by supplying practically everything you used to be able to get on the traditional high St, and it's not just food. They now sell clothes, TV's, Phones, Toys, Insurance and banking etc. And they are able to under cut small businesses by 20%-30% and offer free parking. This is why High Streets and town centres are becoming ghost towns.

As in football, I don't think it's the responsibility of Tesco to bail out Mr Khan, but it is the responsibility of Govt to put proper checks and balances in place that ensure there isn't a monopoly or the conditions that allow big business to hoover up and put small independent shops out of business. There's a range of ways that they could do this, tax breaks, rate relief, quotas similar to housing where X% of new development has to have certain designation etc.

The unfettered capitalist model that has been applied to retail in the UK (and most of the western world) has seen our once thriving and interesting town centres turn into identikit towns at best and in a lot of cases has simply killed them off, with most towns now having out of town retail parks with the same old boring Costa, Poundland, Pets at Home, B&M warehouse style shops.

There's a couple of fairly key differences though:

a) it is entirely in Tesco's interest for the corner shop to go to the wall. They benefit from it and would be fine with it happening. In the main it makes either little difference to top flight clubs or, more likely, it's a negative to them to have the smaller clubs disappear (though not as big a problem as some make out).

b) If my local shop goes bust I'm likely to shop elsewhere, I'm not that bothered about where I buy my milk. If my football team goes bust I'd take it as a perfect opportunity to drop all interest in a game that's becoming more distant to the average person by each season. I'm not quite cynical enough to think that the average fan would just hop over to supporting another club.

At a guess, and it is just a guess, there'll be fewer people attending matches in 10-20 years time than there were pre-covid as the football pyramid shrinks but there'll be more people watching from abroad. I think it's a shame as it takes away connections to local clubs and creates a "fake" kind of atmosphere but I'm pretty out-dated in that regard. I have little doubt there'll be a billion people tuning in to watch the Euro-Super-Soccer-Ball Final in 2050.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Putting £50m a season in, is relative buttons though compared to the clubs you’d have to overcome to get even close to the top 6, as that’d also have to cover increased wages. More than what you have yes, but in terms of making a genuine impact, nowhere near enough.

As for the Saudis and the moral case against them, I’ve no issue with people choosing to ignore that element if they wish, as there’s plenty of iffy money in the PL. However, what was bang out of order during that debacle was Geordies attacking those who were making representations to the PL about the human rights issues, as that was also their choice and right. For example, the trolling of Khashoggi’s fiancé and trying to discredit her and her perfectly valid point, that was about as low as it’s possible to get.

Depends really they might have spent 100 well in one window and it's hard to imagine we wouldbt improve with consistency, but you just never know.. People were laughing at villa's sending a tear ago, but oneyer later and a little more and they're flying. It was basically going to give the club a chance and right nkw there's no chance, so it was exciting. Once again though we're going further and further towards the fizzy with not hope of anything being different..

It is what is it and nothing lasts forever... One day we will have a new owner that's all I want.


You'll always get fans like the ones that went after kashiggis wife.. I always said throughout she's the one person I'm alk ears to

 

[haslam]

Putting £50m a season in, is relative buttons though compared to the clubs you’d have to overcome to get even close to the top 6, as that’d also have to cover increased wages. More than what you have yes, but in terms of making a genuine impact, nowhere near enough.

As for the Saudis and the moral case against them, I’ve no issue with people choosing to ignore that element if they wish, as there’s plenty of iffy money in the PL. However, what was bang out of order during that debacle was Geordies attacking those who were making representations to the PL about the human rights issues, as that was also their choice and right. For example, the trolling of Khashoggi’s fiancé and trying to discredit her and her perfectly valid point, that was about as low as it’s possible to get.

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure @captain wrong was also vocal about that not being an ok stance at the time (there's no way on earth I'm reading back through the take-over thread to see but if you can filter better then feel free). We have some utter fruit-loops who follow us and sadly they tend to be rather vocal.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure @captain wrong was also vocal about that not being an ok stance at the time (there's no way on earth I'm reading back through the take-over thread to see but if you can filter better then feel free). We have some utter fruit-loops who follow us and sadly they tend to be rather vocal.

Correct mate pleased you recalled

 

[PINKIE]

There's a couple of fairly key differences though:

a) it is entirely in Tesco's interest for the corner shop to go to the wall. They benefit from it and would be fine with it happening. In the main it makes either little difference to top flight clubs or, more likely, it's a negative to them to have the smaller clubs disappear (though not as big a problem as some make out).

b) If my local shop goes bust I'm likely to shop elsewhere, I'm not that bothered about where I buy my milk. If my football team goes bust I'd take it as a perfect opportunity to drop all interest in a game that's becoming more distant to the average person by each season. I'm not quite cynical enough to think that the average fan would just hop over to supporting another club.

At a guess, and it is just a guess, there'll be fewer people attending matches in 10-20 years time than there were pre-covid as the football pyramid shrinks but there'll be more people watching from abroad. I think it's a shame as it takes away connections to local clubs and creates a "fake" kind of atmosphere but I'm pretty out-dated in that regard. I have little doubt there'll be a billion people tuning in to watch the Euro-Super-Soccer-Ball Final in 2050.

Yup. I don't think the top club really care that much if (1) Smaller clubs go to the wall (2) Fans aren't able to return to stadiums.

The snide moves from Utd and Liverpool over the last few weeks have shown that their interests lie in milking the PPV viewer and selling their brand across a global platform.

 

[Tobes]

I could be wrong but I'm pretty sure @captain wrong was also vocal about that not being an ok stance at the time (there's no way on earth I'm reading back through the take-over thread to see but if you can filter better then feel free). We have some utter fruit-loops who follow us and sadly they tend to be rather vocal.

I never accused him of being one of those fans though, but there was plenty of them on SM and some on your board on here.

 

[Fox Mulder]

Yup. I don't think the top club really care that much if (1) Smaller clubs go to the wall (2) Fans aren't able to return to stadiums.

The snide moves from Utd and Liverpool over the last few weeks have shown that their interests lie in milking the PPV viewer and selling their brand across a global platform.

These people are at the clubs to make money they'd actually be pleased to destroy the opposition because they're afraid of them

 

[haslam]

Yup. I don't think the top club really care that much if (1) Smaller clubs go to the wall (2) Fans aren't able to return to stadiums.

The snide moves from Utd and Liverpool over the last few weeks have shown that their interests lie in milking the PPV viewer and selling their brand across a global platform.

Agree entirely. I would add though that whilst it's fun poking the finger at Liverpool and Man Utd it's a natural evolution from the point of having owners who have no connection or care with their fans and only with milking money - most of the top flight clubs would do the same if they were in that position as they are investors looking to maximise their returns with the best security and ultimately as fans we have little power over it. I cannot imagine the likes of Usmanov or Ashley taking the moral high-ground if they discover it's going to benefit them.

What I don't understand though is fans of ANY club supporting it. It's transparently bad for football.

 

[haslam]

I never accused him of being one of those fans though, but there was plenty of them on SM and some on your board on here.

I'm not saying you did mate, just wanted to make it clear as tone isn't always easy to pick up. @captain wrong is a fruitloop but I like to believe he has some sort of moral compass (a belief which could undoubtedly be shot down within 60 seconds of searching his history)


ps. SM? I feel I'm about to embarrass myself by asking.

 

[PINKIE]

Agree entirely. I would add though that whilst it's fun poking the finger at Liverpool and Man Utd it's a natural evolution from the point of having owners who have no connection or care with their fans and only with milking money - most of the top flight clubs would do the same if they were in that position as they are investors looking to maximise their returns with the best security and ultimately as fans we have little power over it. I cannot imagine the likes of Usmanov or Ashley taking the moral high-ground if they discover it's going to benefit them.

What I don't understand though is fans of ANY club supporting it. It's transparently bad for football.

I only mention those two as they were the ones putting forward both the 'big picture' and the 'Euro super league' ideas, but yes I don't doubt that Kronke at Arsenal, Joe Lewis at Spurs along with most of the others would support these ideas. They'll be looking to recoup their covid losses (when I say losses, I mean a small dent in their vast fortunes) by pushing forward these ideas.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I never accused him of being one of those fans though, but there was plenty of them on SM and some on your board on here.

Peoples decision making is all one the place when it comes to football because they're emotionally invested in their clubs. Too many people can't see passed their initial emotional decisions. It essentially boiled down to ' I want this to happen, so **** you to anyone who doesn't'

 

[astro]

Why are people still discussing a rejected proposal?

The English league doesn't want Liverpool and Man Utd's financial help. So they will go join a European league of viable clubs.

Probably time to close the thread

 

[Tobes]

I'm not saying you did mate, just wanted to make it clear as tone isn't always easy to pick up. @captain wrong is a fruitloop but I like to believe he has some sort of moral compass (a belief which could undoubtedly be shot down within 60 seconds of searching his history)


ps. SM? I feel I'm about to embarrass myself by asking.

Social media, notably twitter.

 

[Fox Mulder]

I'm not saying you did mate, just wanted to make it clear as tone isn't always easy to pick up. @captain wrong is a fruitloop but I like to believe he has some sort of moral compass (a belief which could undoubtedly be shot down within 60 seconds of searching his history)


ps. SM? I feel I'm about to embarrass myself by asking.

Stop tagging me I'm not one of your pupils you sexy beast

 

[Fox Mulder]

Why are people still discussing a rejected proposal?

The English league doesn't want Liverpool and Man Utd's financial help. So they will go join a European league of viable clubs.

Probably time to close the thread

Will you **** off with them mate?

 

[haslam]

Stop tagging me I'm not one of your pupils you sexy beast

@captain wrong apologies

 

[Tobes]

Peoples decision making is all one the place when it comes to football because they're emotionally invested in their clubs. Too many people can't see passed their initial emotional decisions. It essentially boiled down to ' I want this to happen, so **** you to anyone who doesn't'

Doesn’t excuse it for me. I get that people can lose their sense of perspective when it comes to football, but calling out Khashoggis fiancé as a fraud and abusing her on Twitter? Anyone who stoops that low needs to have a ****ing word with themselves.

 

[haslam]

I'll try and not do it again @captain wrong