Progress under LR

[Howdentiger2]

Seen as this topic always seems to clog up the MDT's both before and after, let's have a thread dedicated to the discussion of progress under Rosie.

If any of these are wrong please feel free to correct them

LR took over 3rd Nov 2022. So we are pretty close to a full calendar year. His first game was against Millwall 5th Nov which ( I think ) was our 19th game that season due to the way fixtures landed last season due to the world cup break etc. This season by 5th we will have played 15 games, so slightly less.

At this point last season after 12 games we sat on 14pts ( all shota )
Won - 4
Draw - 2
Lost - 6
Goals scored -13
Goals conceded - 22
Goal difference = - 9

This season after 12 games we sit on 17pts ( all LR )
Won - 4
Draw - 5
Lost - 3
Goals scored - 17
Goals conceded - 16
Goal difference = +1

So if we look at like for like this season Vs last season ( so far ) we are 3 points better off and obviously harder to beat with losing half the amount of games and drawing over double the amount, The worrying thing is the lack of wins (no improvement over same amount of games as last season ) which is really making real progress difficult and unless it changes we won't grow from a safe mid table team.

After 2 full windows of being backed handsomely in both financial and numbers terms by the club, I feel the progress should be more. LR quite obviously stopped the nose dive under Shota and it needed to happen. But I still question whether LR is the man to take us from a very safe mid table team to the next step and make us a promotion challenging team.

Let's try and keep it on here as opposed to the MDTs

 

[The B&S Fanclub]

We're developing a good squad and a decent side. We probably need a couple of newcomers in the Jan window and we could still be there or thereabouts for a top 6 finish, though right now a 8th to 12th inc. finish looks more realistic..

 

[eimaj]

Think it really depends on the owners long term vision. When Acun first came in, there was talk of him wanting a relatively quick flip, get us into the promised land and see what profit he could make from it. If that is the case, I don't think LR is the man for the job. HOWEVER, if that's now changed (or was BS to begin with), and Acun is happy to be patient, LR could flourish, but I think he needs another couple of seasons before that happens. I'd be amazed if any owner allows that much time.

My biggest concerns are 1) he seems to prefer youngsters which results in a lack of leadership on the pitch and 2) he himself doesn't have an experienced head working alongside him to spitball ideas off; I know from my own professional development, whilst I was very independent, thinking I had all the answers, having an older mentor, and someone who could work with my, frankly, arrogance, was actually invaluable.

 

[Off The Line]

Before the season started most people agreed that this season would be tougher than the last, and in my view that has been borne out in the quality we have seen from other teams. Yet, we have the potential to mix it with any of them. Results do obviously need to improve, but really it's the same as not getting carried away by a good run, the results will come, I feel.

 

[AlRawdah]

Seen as this topic always seems to clog up the MDT's both before and after, let's have a thread dedicated to the discussion of progress under Rosie.

If any of these are wrong please feel free to correct them

LR took over 3rd Nov 2022. So we are pretty close to a full calendar year. His first game was against Millwall 5th Nov which ( I think ) was our 19th game that season due to the way fixtures landed last season due to the world cup break etc. This season by 5th we will have played 15 games, so slightly less.

At this point last season after 12 games we sat on 14pts ( all shota )
Won - 4
Draw - 2
Lost - 6
Goals scored -13
Goals conceded - 22
Goal difference = - 9

This season after 12 games we sit on 17pts ( all LR )
Won - 4
Draw - 5
Lost - 3
Goals scored - 17
Goals conceded - 16
Goal difference = +1

So if we look at like for like this season Vs last season ( so far ) we are 3 points better off and obviously harder to beat with losing half the amount of games and drawing over double the amount, The worrying thing is the lack of wins (no improvement over same amount of games as last season ) which is really making real progress difficult and unless it changes we won't grow from a safe mid table team.

After 2 full windows of being backed handsomely in both financial and numbers terms by the club, I feel the progress should be more. LR quite obviously stopped the nose dive under Shota and it needed to happen. But I still question whether LR is the man to take us from a very safe mid table team to the next step and make us a promotion challenging team.

Let's try and keep it on here as opposed to the MDTs

I may be wrong, but I recall you saying that it would take Rosenior two or three windows to compile the squad he wanted to compete in this league. We are two windows in (just) and you seem impatient. What changed?

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

I know this is if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle stuff but 2 of the 3 games we've lost this season came in the final minute of injury time.

Incredibly frustrating but if we'd have not conceded those 2 goals it would be W4 D7 L1 with 14 goals conceded.

And we'd be touching the playoffs on 19 points.


Small margins.



As is often the case, with a handful of exceptions at the top and the bottom, the Championship so far this season is you beat them, they'll beat you, and so it goes. From 3rd to 15th all teams have won either 4,5 or 6 games and are separated by 6 points.


Can't put a *** paper between the bulk of teams in this league.

 

[Howdentiger2]

I may be wrong, but I recall you saying that it would take Rosenior two or three windows to compile the squad he wanted to compete in this league. We are two windows in (just) and you seem impatient. What changed?

I wouldn't say it's impatience. I personally would just like to have seen more of an improvement after a year in charge. He's obviously made us harder to beat as the stats show, but he just can't seem to win games or create a winning mentality. He's instead created a must not lose mentality. Which unfortunately won't see us become a promotion candidate. I just don't think he has the experience to make that next step. He's steadfast in what he wants and how he wants us approach games etc and I just don't see the openmindeenes in him to really change that and without it we won't move from being a safe mid table team into a promotion candidates

I did say 2/3 windows and he's had, as you say 2 and It's pretty obvious the type of player he wants and will bring in. I'm just not sure his preference of young relatively inexperienced players will give us and him what's needed to move from an inconsistent team to a consistent team which is needed in this league to be promotion candidates.

LR is a great and lovely guy who quite obviously loves the club and area etc. I don't want that ( or just that ) in a coach/manager. I want someone who will take us up.... personally I just don't think LR is that person at this stage in his career.

Lots of thinking out loud there...sorry

 

[jhe10]

And if you look at the last 6 games compared to last season, we've struggled recently averaging a point a game and losing twice. By comparison Shota's team had just beaten Wigan 2-1 after 5 consecutive defeats scoring once and conceding 13. Anyone else want a go at the selective stats game?

 

[Howdentiger2]

I know this is if me aunt had balls she'd be me uncle stuff but 2 of the 3 games we've lost this season came in the final minute of injury time.

Incredibly frustrating but if we'd have not conceded those 2 goals it would be W4 D7 L1 with 14 goals conceded.

And we'd be touching the playoffs on 19 points.


Small margins.



As is often the case, with a handful of exceptions at the top and the bottom, the Championship so far this season is you beat them, they'll beat you, and so it goes. From 3rd to 15th all teams have won either 4,5 or 6 games and are separated by 6 points.


Can't put a *** paper between the bulk of teams in this league.

Absolutely, but it could also have gone the other way, the Leicester win 99 out off 100 would have been a draw or loss, they where all over us for the most but just couldn't hit the target. We barley beat a 10man Blackburn with 2 late goals. That could easily been points dropped and we'd be worse off... IFS but and maybes could be used for everything and every game..... hindsight is a wonderful thing as well. I'm just going on the facts/stats as they are now

 

[Howdentiger2]

And if you look at the last 6 games compared to last season, we've struggled recently averaging a point a game and losing twice. By comparison Shota's team had just beaten Wigan 2-1 after 5 consecutive defeats scoring once and conceding 13. Anyone else want a go at the selective stats game?

Who's using selective stats? I certainly haven't. I've used first 12 games of last season Vs first 12 of this season. Nothing selective there what so ever. They are just facts and stats.

Feel free to point out anything on this thread that's "selective stats"

 

[Steven Toast]

If we are struggling at Xmas and what we are seeing now turns out to be the start of a drab run, his days might be more numbered than we think. I would hope not, but the owners and the recruitment team have got their ducks in a row for January and if they don’t think this manager is the right one to lead them, they might be tempted.

There is a very good atmosphere around the club at the moment, we’re not being battered and if we do lose, it’s not because we’ve been awful. We are a bit shot shy, a bit reminiscent of early 2010 Arsenal teams, but I think that’ll sort itself out. I think the owners know that a change might rock the boat a little and low morale and no wins is no good for anybody.

 

[Benjo]

Under Shota it was chaos. You never knew if we were going to beat someone 4-3 or lose 4-0 with us giving them huge helping hands along the way. Aside from the football itself to be fair to Shota he had a largely new squad which was also riddled with injuries at the time.

Rosenior brings us stability, but again, to be fair he's had a better squad with fewer injury concerns than Shota had. I can't help but feel that if we tried harder to take the game to the opposition teams we'd be much higher in the table now. 'Control possession' generally seems to work for us away and we've done OK in that regard. The same mentality doesn't really work at home and we've been dropping points as a result. If we see the same sort of performance and mentality moving forward that we did this weekend, I'm confident we'll start picking up more wins from our home games. It's still possession based football, but we did far more with the ball and so much more quickly - as if we were trying to win the game (until the end). More of that level in home games (or even away as well) and there's no reason we couldn't go on a run and climb back up the table.

We need to build some confidence now. We've not lost many, but some of the draws and the manner of them have clearly been deflating. We need to beat someone comfortably in order to kick on now.

 

[East_Stand_Always]

I'm happy with the team assembled and the progress made. I do really believe we have made progress and I think we are closer to clicking as a team rather than falling apart.

I draw comparisons with 2007/2008. 12 games in we sat 13th with 5 defeats. We only lost another 8 games all season and the rest as we say is history. This team is better than that one and I feel LR is a better coach than PB. Difference could have been having Nobby as the #2. Old head to provide advice. Maybe we need the same and that could be our biggest signing of the season.

 

[Howdentiger2]

If we are struggling at Xmas and what we are seeing now turns out to be the start of a drab run, his days might be more numbered than we think. I would hope not, but the owners and the recruitment team have got their ducks in a row for January and if they don’t think this manager is the right one to lead them, they might be tempted.

There is a very good atmosphere around the club at the moment, we’re not being battered and if we do lose, it’s not because we’ve been awful. We are a bit shot shy, a bit reminiscent of early 2010 Arsenal teams, but I think that’ll sort itself out. I think the owners know that a change might rock the boat a little and low morale and no wins is no good for anybody.

There's a fantastic atmosphere, you're absolutely spot on, but it could also start to drop of the results don't improve, it's such a fine margin either way....would that atmosphere spur if LR went?.... Not sure it would especially if the replacement created excitement.

It really is a tough one because we really aren't doing all that badly, but we also really aren't doing all that well. we just look as I've said...a mid table team.

I think the biggest question for Acun/Tan is do they see LR being able to make us into a promotion challenging team. If yes then he stays but if they don't then what's the point of keeping him?

 

[John Ex Aberdeen now E.R.]

I think both Acun and Tan are wise enough to realise that to get to the EPL you have to build a squad which for the most part will be the nucleus of a team that has a chance of staying up. This might take 2 or 3 more windows, as with FFP rules, you tread carefully financially. I personally feel that as long as Liam is making steady progress they will stick with him, of course if the wheel come off then that is a different matter, but I do feel we are on the right track.

 

[Drew]

I’m going to get shot down for this I’m sure, but I see real progress.

I know the results aren’t quite where we might want and I do think that inevitably has to change otherwise it’ll have to be a different manager taking the team forward.

However, at the same time - it’s a young team with a young manager who are playing well. You can’t count on one hand how many times we’ve been out of games this season. I’ll take that for now. The performances are so much better than I’ve seen for a long time.

 

[Drew]

Sorry, duplicate post. So good it needed saying twice!

 

[Ernie Shackleton]

I’m going to get shot down for this I’m sure, but I see real progress.

I know the results aren’t quite where we might want and I do think that inevitably has to change otherwise it’ll have to be a different manager taking the team forward.

However, at the same time - it’s a young team with a young manager who are playing well. You can’t count on one hand how many times we’ve been out of games this season. I’ll take that for now. The performances are so much better than I’ve seen for a long time.

Hopefully no shooting down.

This thread's had a great start and hasn't had any personal attacks or other such nonsense yet.

Long may it continue without the pointless back and forth that spoils so many debates on here.

 

[Howdentiger2]

I’m going to get shot down for this I’m sure, but I see real progress.

I know the results aren’t quite where we might want and I do think that inevitably has to change otherwise it’ll have to be a different manager taking the team forward.

However, at the same time - it’s a young team with a young manager who are playing well. You can’t count on one hand how many times we’ve been out of games this season. I’ll take that for now. The performances are so much better than I’ve seen for a long time.

No shooting down (from me anyway). The young team and young manger combination is unfortunately one of reason why we aren't seeing the results imo. We need some experience both on and off the field to help us win games, we just don't have the game management knowledge that comes with experience. I hope we change that in Jan, but under LR I just don't see it happening with his preference in the transfer market.

Eimaj said it earlier in the thread, maybe an older head in the coaching staff/club as a bit of a mentor for LR and someone that will push back against him, challenge him, question him and not just nod their head would be a good thing?

 

[Chazz Rheinhold]

Push back against him!!

nob their head

threads gone
Shame on you howden