Possible Gate re-development

Cliftonville said:
Visited a stadium yesterday where a formerly passionate support has been consumed by the mediocrity of their surroundings.

Cardiff of old with five thousand fans showed more.
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No doubt then it's mediocrity was only surpassed by the depth of the appalling football of your team.

They're obviously used to playing in shed to match their performance such was the poor standard of their game.

If you can break away from this obvious attempt to score some Brownie points, I agree with you. Nothing can compare with the atmosphere of the old grounds, and Ninian Park was a prime example of that era. An old favourite of mine Fratton is one of the very few left now.

I spent two and a half years working in Hull in the 80's and spent most Saturday afternoons at Boothferry Park. When Hull weren't at home, we had many a trip up the road to Roker and Ayresome for some great football experiences. The creation of the KC, Riverside and Stadium of Light were inevitable as we move forward - the supporters had to live with it and adjust.

Before that in the early/mid 70's during my student apprenticeship in SW3, I spent nearly as long watching the end of the Osgood era at Chelsea from the old Shed - very little could compare with that. Iron girders and corrugated tin sheets that echoed with the noise from within it to the extent that it hurt your ears.

Your point about NP resounding to 5000 supporters rather than the 25000 at the CCS is absolutely correct. It's just a shame that your attempt to recreate the dinosaur will not succeed.

If you retain a revamped AG then good luck to you, but it's obviously a second-best compromise because of the apparent reluctance of the establishment over there to move into the modern era. You may applaud it on here, but it reeks of sour grapes and I doubt deep down, many over there would not agree with you.

Good luck anyway - and that's with your team for the rest of the season as well as your retro aspirations.
 
Oldsparkey said:
No doubt then it's mediocrity was only surpassed by the depth of the appalling football of your team.

They're obviously used to playing in shed to match their performance such was the poor standard of their game.

If you can break away from this obvious attempt to score some Brownie points, I agree with you. Nothing can compare with the atmosphere of the old grounds, and Ninian Park was a prime example of that era. An old favourite of mine Fratton is one of the very few left now.

I spent two and a half years working in Hull in the 80's and spent most Saturday afternoons at Boothferry Park. When Hull weren't at home, we had many a trip up the road to Roker and Ayresome for some great football experiences. The creation of the KC, Riverside and Stadium of Light were inevitable as we move forward - the supporters had to live with it and adjust.

Before that in the early/mid 70's during my student apprenticeship in SW3, I spent nearly as long watching the end of the Osgood era at Chelsea from the old Shed - very little could compare with that. Iron girders and corrugated tin sheets that echoed with the noise from within it to the extent that it hurt your ears.

Your point about NP resounding to 5000 supporters rather than the 25000 at the CCS is absolutely correct. It's just a shame that your attempt to recreate the dinosaur will not succeed.

If you retain a revamped AG then good luck to you, but it's obviously a second-best compromise because of the apparent reluctance of the establishment over there to move into the modern era. You may applaud it on here, but it reeks of sour grapes and I doubt deep down, many over there would not agree with you.

Good luck anyway - and that's with your team for the rest of the season as well as your retro aspirations.
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Silly, predictable, insular, indignation again!

A re-developed Ashton Gate or Ashton Vale does not need to be second best if the emphasis is avoiding poor design flaws elsewhere.

Interesting point re tin sheets. High or low RT?

The materials used in builds can dampen sound. A obvious drawback of open bowls is the way sound reverberates, and sonic energy does not increase.

Observing these points, striving to improve on them does not make one a luddite, and could be viewed as progressive thinking.
 
Really? Just about as silly, predictable and insular as your superficial comments about the theory of stadium building. As for idignation, your supercilious replies indicate you must have a degree in it.

Enough of this anyway - it's an academic question that has no real answer. It tends to be tainted by personal standpoints and most will pursue their own opinions no matter what arguments are put forward.

BTW, progressive thinking often equates to going nowhere. I hope you get what you wish for - we already have.
 
Funny you should say that Old Sparky I've just been reading some of your fans on OTIB who prefered NP they were thanking our fans for creating a bit of a atmosphere that's rarely heard since you've been in the new stadium.

But if your happy with it then that's ok, some of our fans are dreading the day we get a new one. Me I want AG redeveloped but can see the financial benefits that go with a new stadium. One that's impressed me is the Hawthorns which is basically a revamped ground.

I doubt that what ever happens to our ground won't mean nothing to you because unless its a cup game we won't be playing you for a good few years again.
 
RedorDead BCFC said:
some of our fans are dreading the day we get a new one. Me I want AG redeveloped but can see the financial benefits that go with a new stadium. One that's impressed me is the Hawthorns which is basically a revamped ground.
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ROD; There are still plenty of redeveloped grounds in addition to WBA; Leeds, Sheff U, Sheff Wed, Wolves, Villa, Birmingham, Old Trafford, Anfield, Fulham, West Ham, Spurs, and so on, where the atmosphere is good. Plus some of the new ones where the crowd get well behind their team such as Stoke, Man City, Leicester, Derby, Sunderland.

I think it's too negative to condemn a new stadium as not having an atmosphere. It's up to the team and the fans to create it.
Bad team, good accoustic stadium = no atmosphere!
Good team, crap accoustics = good atmosphere.
Go to the Mem and watch Bristol Rugby; poor accoustics except Blackthorn end but 5,000 there make a lot of noise and create a good atmosphere for the fans and more importantly, the team. This afternoon on Radio Bristol 4,500 made a lot more noise than 25,000 at Cardiff City yesterday!

My biggest cause for concern with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate to 26,000 is simply that if a miracle happens and we get to and stay in the Prem, we cannot increase this because there are houses on the three sides apart from the Williams. Thus to really take City forward immediately and for the next 50 years, it has to be a new stadium with the space to enlarge if and when needed.
 
cidered abroad said:
ROD; There are still plenty of redeveloped grounds in addition to WBA; Leeds, Sheff U, Sheff Wed, Wolves, Villa, Birmingham, Old Trafford, Anfield, Fulham, West Ham, Spurs, and so on, where the atmosphere is good. Plus some of the new ones where the crowd get well behind their team such as Stoke, Man City, Leicester, Derby, Sunderland.

I think it's too negative to condemn a new stadium as not having an atmosphere. It's up to the team and the fans to create it.
Bad team, good accoustic stadium = no atmosphere!
Good team, crap accoustics = good atmosphere.
Go to the Mem and watch Bristol Rugby; poor accoustics except Blackthorn end but 5,000 there make a lot of noise and create a good atmosphere for the fans and more importantly, the team. This afternoon on Radio Bristol 4,500 made a lot more noise than 25,000 at Cardiff City yesterday!

My biggest cause for concern with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate to 26,000 is simply that if a miracle happens and we get to and stay in the Prem, we cannot increase this because there are houses on the three sides apart from the Williams. Thus to really take City forward immediately and for the next 50 years, it has to be a new stadium with the space to enlarge if and when needed.
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Bad team, good accoustic stadium = Half decent often good at Ashton Gate in the eastend.

Shall do saturday now very good team, crap accoustics = An atmosphere as bads as any I have heard from 20000+ people. I didnt think it was good in the away end either towards the front as the stadium sucks the noise away from the hundreds towards the back who were singing.

Bit of perception forget the money and the bellamys on the pitch off the pitch that progress looks ****. That club has lost it big time. Bcfc have an opportunity to use that as an example of the things to avoid, at least in one end of a new stadium - rebuild. we as fans should have pride in our club. CCFC off the pitch!!!
 
cidered abroad said:
ROD; There are still plenty of redeveloped grounds in addition to WBA; Leeds, Sheff U, Sheff Wed, Wolves, Villa, Birmingham, Old Trafford, Anfield, Fulham, West Ham, Spurs, and so on, where the atmosphere is good. Plus some of the new ones where the crowd get well behind their team such as Stoke, Man City, Leicester, Derby, Sunderland.

I think it's too negative to condemn a new stadium as not having an atmosphere. It's up to the team and the fans to create it.
Bad team, good accoustic stadium = no atmosphere!
Good team, crap accoustics = good atmosphere.
Go to the Mem and watch Bristol Rugby; poor accoustics except Blackthorn end but 5,000 there make a lot of noise and create a good atmosphere for the fans and more importantly, the team. This afternoon on Radio Bristol 4,500 made a lot more noise than 25,000 at Cardiff City yesterday!

My biggest cause for concern with the redevelopment of Ashton Gate to 26,000 is simply that if a miracle happens and we get to and stay in the Prem, we cannot increase this because there are houses on the three sides apart from the Williams. Thus to really take City forward immediately and for the next 50 years, it has to be a new stadium with the space to enlarge if and when needed.
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It is realistic to condemn that stadium.

Here was a support that was admired for its intensity. Now? ****. Awful design awful fans.

So why are these fans now failing to do what they proudly did before? Can't be the team. So it has to be somehow connected to something else.

I think Bristol City fans were shocked at how shabby it all was. There was more homage to Vincent Tan and his Malay flags, shirts, dragons than to Cardiff City. He might as well put a image of himself. It was cringey.

The demise of a vibrant set of fans can be put sqarely at the feet of that stadium and the owner of that club.

Bristol City are better than that.
 
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This picture off of OTIB of the Cardiff's director's box says it all, more like an altar to a false god, quite off putting..
 
Expect a certain person will probably accuse fans here of being closet racists, but from the outside it all looked like a homage to Mr Tan than to a true football club.

It all adds up to overwhelmingly crap.
 
I can certainly agree that you have the much better knowledge of what constitutes "overwhelmingly crap".

Start with your team, your stadium and the green eyed jealous monsters who have posted so negatively on here.

Bye bye folks, won't be seeing you for a few years at least.
 
BluefromBridgend said:
I can certainly agree that you have the much better knowledge of what constitutes "overwhelmingly crap".

Start with your team, your stadium and the green eyed jealous monsters who have posted so negatively on here.

Bye bye folks, won't be seeing you for a few years at least.
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Satert with your team well the thread is about stadium development so the team is discussed elsewhere like !!

So overwhelmingly crap is open plan with a poor qulaity finish. A stadium that has lots of overt indicators to Malaysia but to CCFC's past? A big partition with an image in honour of a former favourite player would not cost much. It is a horrible ground and its overwhelmingly crap feel seems to have overwhelmed fans there to a point they have shut up and sat down content to clap when the goals go in do a little shimmy and thats it.

I would have liked to come back and said that was good that good Bristol City need this but it was all as rubbish as expected or worse. Toilets fine, food like normal, watered down strongbow might have been better than a normal pint of the stuff so there you go "overwhelmingly crap".
 
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Say's it all, girders, iron bars on the windows and a Malasian flag dominating the walls, like a bloody prison......

.....Oh and City boys singing and pointing ' What the f........g hell is that '....?
 
Just read these latest comments and you guys are realy something special.

Like I said in an earlier post - I hope you get what you wish for.

Despite my initial attempt at a bit of a wind up at the top of this thread over your stadium issues, there was no malice intended. You go your way (eventually), and we'll go ours.

We leased Ninian park from the City Council, and though there was still I believe over 25 years left to run, the re-development of the ground was an economic non-starter given our financial circumstances, quite apart from the limited space available between the railway line and housing on Sloper Road.

We had to move. When the City Council offered to provide the land just across the road for the new stadium and also give us £8M toward it for the return of the unexpired term of the Ninian park lease to sell the land to Redrow for housing, the option was obvious. What we've got is what we've got, and it'll only ever be what we make of it.

Some of the comments on here about our stadium and new owners who weren't even around when it was conceived and built, might just strike the casual non biased observer as being sour grapes of the bitterest sort over the stagnation your progress has encountered, but I'm sure you will be quick to deny that.

Progress can be a double edged sword - some appear to be able to wait promoting only the "traditional" stance as the way forward, others have little choice.

It's problem to say which should come first - progress on the pitch or a new home and then build from there. We made our bed, and have a new 27,000 seater stadium with another 8,000 second tier seats to go in next year bringing it up to 35,000 that will hopefully entertain the Premier League clubs next season.

You on the other hand have a few sheds that are of the same standard as your football team - well below Championship level and in need of replacement.

You will have no problem wringing your hands next season having to come to our "pile of ****" again - you will not doubt be enthralled to enjoy similar sheds on your travels in League One as well as at home.

Enjoy guys - you know it makes sense.
 
Oldsparkey said:
Just read these latest comments and you guys are realy something special.

Like I said in an earlier post - I hope you get what you wish for.

Despite my initial attempt at a bit of a wind up at the top of this thread over your stadium issues, there was no malice intended. You go your way (eventually), and we'll go ours.

We leased Ninian park from the City Council, and though there was still I believe over 25 years left to run, the re-development of the ground was an economic non-starter given our financial circumstances, quite apart from the limited space available between the railway line and housing on Sloper Road.

We had to move. When the City Council offered to provide the land just across the road for the new stadium and also give us £8M toward it for the return of the unexpired term of the Ninian park lease to sell the land to Redrow for housing, the option was obvious. What we've got is what we've got, and it'll only ever be what we make of it.

Some of the comments on here about our stadium and new owners who weren't even around when it was conceived and built, might just strike the casual non biased observer as being sour grapes of the bitterest sort over the stagnation your progress has encountered, but I'm sure you will be quick to deny that.

Progress can be a double edged sword - some appear to be able to wait promoting only the "traditional" stance as the way forward, others have little choice.

It's problem to say which should come first - progress on the pitch or a new home and then build from there. We made our bed, and have a new 27,000 seater stadium with another 8,000 second tier seats to go in next year bringing it up to 35,000 that will hopefully entertain the Premier League clubs next season.

You on the other hand have a few sheds that are of the same standard as your football team - well below Championship level and in need of replacement.

You will have no problem wringing your hands next season having to come to our "pile of ****" again - you will not doubt be enthralled to enjoy similar sheds on your travels in League One as well as at home.

Enjoy guys - you know it makes sense.
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I think the critique has been level and centred on ambience, acoustics, atmosphere, character and imagery. There that stadium in Cardiff fails badly.

Keep galloping like Shergar to that default of position of sour grapes.

The sheds here, or open land in Ashton Vale don't have to be up to much to surpass the above standard.
 
Keep taking the tablets Clifton - the ones with the bitter taste.

Sour grapes doesn't come near the abject hypocrisy that most of you display on here. If the positions were reversed, you and the rest of your cohorts would singing a completely different tune.

Displaying disdain at the success of others by promoting superior standards of the "ideal" scenario is typical of those who have got **** all at the moment.

I salute you for your crusade, but will reserve my judgement on the final outcome of your ambitions until there is something tangible to see, instead of the hot air many of you seem keen on.

Enjoy the dream in your sheds - we'll enjoy the reality in the Prem.
 
Sparks

You have tried really hard but there is no point in trying to persuade, cajole or educate this bunch of numpties. They still have a crap team in a crap stadium and appear some way off having what they would regard as a stadium worthy of their support. Hope they don't have to hold their breath waiting.....but on the other hand.......

If they didn't enjoy our place - tough - they didn't have to come, and there is a pub in the city centre that wishes they hadn't bothered.

Yes, they made some good noise at times although were a bit quiet after conceding twice and only made more noise than other away fans at our place because they brought twice the normal number we see (with a couple of odd exceptions). And still they tried to pick a fight with the Family Stand, brave boys.

I'm sure they will enjoy casting their architectural eyes over the stadia of Division 1. Perhaps they are all script writers for Homes Under the Hammer?
 
Old sparkey;
Maybe our bitter taste is due to the fact that while your council gave you cash and a piece of land to build your stadium, our major shareholder had to buy a piece of land that was a council rubbish tip for £11 million (I believe).

And now for the last two and half years the construction cannot start because of a stupid crap piece of legislation which allows any one who is a "Nimby" to block any project already with planning permission by saying it is a "town or village green" which has been used for recreational purposes for the last 20 years, when it patently has not been except for the odd dog walk.

And if you think we are bitter you are dead right.

And all this reminds me of the farce back in the 90's when all seater stadiums were introduced by legislation. Bristol City in Division One, spent all their available cash doing just that; building a new stand and putting seats all over the terracing. But some clubs like Sunderland and Derby managed to have the rules deferred for several years because they were going to have new stadiums built about three or four years on.

Oh and I'm sure Sparkey you will be able to guess what happened. Bristol City had no cash left to strengthen the team and we got relegated from Div 1 as the Championship was then! Sunderland and Derby were able to go on spending on players and ended up in the Premier League.

The legislation on all seating did not apply to Cardiff City because you were in the basement leagues then!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! So your tip of a ground called Ninian Park was OK for that.

You bet your life I'm bitter. I hope you enjoy the Premiership if you get there but also hope your owner does not do a "Pompey" on you.
 
Oh and one thing more Old Sparkey; All of you Bluebirds should stop gloating so much because life like football has a very nasty habit of kicking you in the goolies without any warning whatsoever. And then the gloating comes back to haunt you in the most incredible ways.
 
It's understandable that criticism makes you irritable but to call us a bunch of numpties, think you are superior by trying to persuade, cajole or educate us, then tell us we have a crap team in a crap stadium doesn't exactly put you on a high plain..
 
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