Positives from Saturday

[Oldsparkey]

Now let's have a look back at the good news apart from the exemplary behaviour of our fans toward the Leicester tragedy on the day.......

.........we only let in one.

.........we've built a side that would do quite well back in the Championship.

.........we're not bottom (yet).

.........other sides are failing and may still keep us up.

(Come what may, I'll be there next Saturday for the Brighton game. )

 

[BluefromBridgend]

Positives: -

Etheridge is still a very good keeper.
Despite what Ninian said Morrison and Bamba are getting better at this level. Saturday's problem was due to Leicester getting 2 on 1 against our full backs and getting in dangerous crosses which our cb's dealt with apart from the key one and then it was Bennett who lost his man.
Arter and Camarasa are Prem quality.
Gunnar is getting back to full fitness. His long throws are rubbish though - no distance.
Paterson is a handful for most cb's. Gave England's first choice a hard time.
Murphy and Reid will get better.

Negatives apart from nil points and goals -

Manga cannot get forward and be constructive - lack of a good right back
Few goal scoring opportunities created.
No game changers available on bench
Madine ffs!!! Why wasn't Kadeem used? His pace would have made a greater threat.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Being a bit cynical I know, but if Arter and Camarasa are Prem class (and I agree), then we only need another 9.

Gunnar is a dog and will do us a job, but he's miles behind other holding midfielders in this division. One of the plusses on his CV was his long throw, long thought to be a great tactical weapon but Morrison and Paterson are better - trouble is we want them both in the box on the receiving end not taking them.

I really like Pato for his committment and drive. He's a far better player than Vokes in that role and anyone else we've got at the club for that matter - but at the moment that's not saying much.

I agree that both Murphy and Reid should get better and I really rate both, but on Saturday Murphy was appalling defensively and Reid didn't seem to know what he was supposed to do. Was that down to Warnock?

Unfortunately, the worries outweigh the bright spots. You are spot on Bluey that our options are very limited and we have no game changers at the club. Bringing on the likes of Madine and Hoilett to get something from the Leicester game demonstrates that perfectly.

Without Arter, how the hell will Warnock set up against Brighton?

 

[BluefromBridgend]

All good points Sparks. Murphy went missing several times when he should have been helping out his full back. He needs to up his awareness and track back when the full back marking him moves forward.

Reid does disappear from games which do not fit his skill set. However as someone else mentioned he should be picking up Pato's flick ons by now. There is no point in Pato doing all the physical stuff to win the ball if no one gets on the end of it.

Arter's replacement options are very limited for Brighton. Ralls to return if fit. Doesn't have Arter's drive or pace but at least can be a goal threat. As opposed to Damour.......

 

[Oldsparkey]

Bluey - I'm generally not a negative person at all, but this lot have got me hitting the bottle.....

Forget the Prem clubs - looking at the current top 8 in the Championship, I wouldn't back us to beat any of them at the moment.

Apart from our back 5 where even Manga is out of position and filling in as a regular RB, we have no real structure or options in front of them. The midfield is heavily reliant on 2 last minute loan players and a long term injury returnee. Other options such as Ralls and Damour are not Prem class.

Out wide we should be able to muster a competitive pairing but it just hasn't happened so far, and up front is a bloody joke. Just how hard (in terms of cash/investment) did the club try to land us a genuine attacking player rather than relying on the exisiting Zohore/Madine/ Ward options to lead the line?

No good pointing out how good the opposition is up here - we knew that before we stepped on the pitch back in August. We are flying by the seat of our pants from game to game hoping that something will eventually click.

I really thought the Fulham game was a turning point, but after that shocker of a disjointed performance on Saturday against what is arguably only an average mid table side (no disrespect) playing away from home, I'm left very dissappointed.

I really don't think Warnock and Co have an answer at the moment. That's all down to the poor summer transfer window and whoever was responsible for setting out the policy and its' implimentation.

 

[ninian opinion]

I can’t see any positives. As said endlessly the failure in the pre season window to secure a striker and right back and a few more will be our undoing.

Warnock’s substitutions and tactics baffled me on Saturday.

Why take off your best central midfielder?

Why play Reid so deep?

Why take off Murphy, our only really decent attacking player?

Why bring on Hoilett who is short of confidence rather than Harris who is quick and can score?

Why play Paterson all alone up front? Reid or even Murphy should have been playing off him.

Why resort to parks football at this level? Wimbledon are no longer on the PL but our manager is still playing that style of football if all else fails; it’s got to be avoided as PL teams are easily capable of dealing with it.

Why don’t our players get in the refs face? It’s not edifying but our opponents get away with it.

Not beating teams like Burnley, Leicester and Brighton at home will consign us to relegation. City have no chance of picking up points away from home so unless they start winning these games and keeping clean sheets it’s going to be a swift return.

Losing was bad enough but losing in such a limp wristed manner was worse.

 

[Oldsparkey]

I'm not sure of the reasons for some to go to the CCS, but I go there to see my side play well and hopefully win, not just make up the numbers on the pitch. We're being treated like second class residents of this division by the media, other clubs and most of their supporters - I don't like it.

Unfortunately we've dug ourselves a hole of our own design and there's very little we can do about it except dig in for the next 2 months and improve the squad in January ready for the run in.

Having said that, survival will depend as much on the games up till then as after. If we get to the New Year too much adrift of safety, it'll take more than a few imports to haul us back - does anybody believe the other clubs around us will be standing still in January?

 

[Hilts24]

We are going down. It wont even be close.

The positives are we will be stable with a good Championship squad next season.

Anyone know if Ralls is fit? Weve got all sorts of problems if not.

Camarasa Ralls Arter are a good 3. 1 missing and we have probs. 2 major issues.

Performance wise very little to be positive about on Saturday. Etheridge was good so was Bamba. Midfield shocking. Patterson did well against the awful Maguire. Outclassed by Evans.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Hilts - it's still more than just wishful thinking that we can put 3 teams below us in the table come May.

We don't need excuses, admissions of guilt nor apologies from club and management that they got it wrong even if they were offered (very unlikely) - we just need a positive approach to preserving our Premier status having fought so hard to achieve it.

We need to build the club into a Premier "sticky" and there's no reason why we can't even if the "elite" level is well beyond us. Staying here this time should be the start. Despite those who say we'll be stronger and better in the Championship next season, going back down with money will provide no guarantees whatsoever that we can get here again - it's a hard division to get out of.

You can argue that the 30K plus crowds at the CCS are only being achieved because we are in the Prem - what's wrong with that? If we go down there will be a 10K drop at least for next season. A lot of the new and returning crop will drift away again.

Glory hunters? Yeah, maybe some of them are, but at least they're our local glory hunters, not someone sitting in a South Wales pub wearing a Liverpool or Manchester shirt.

 

[ninian opinion]

If we drop down then there is no guarantee they will bounce back. The division is full of ex PL teams who have gone down and stayed down and some even further down.

Our better players will move on.Some of the present squad will go anyway (Connelly, Gunnarsson, Hoilett etc).

The crowds will drop.

Yes we may see City win some games but there’s nothing I can see even this far off in time to suggest City will threaten promotion.

In any event what would be the point if they did drop? 2 promotions and 2 abject relegations with turning up to every home game expecting nothing but a probable defeat. The club obviously has no interest in trying to create a permanent PL team as evidenced by the summers lamentable transfer (in)activity and pre match predictions by our manager we’ll lose.

Was it too much to ask for that the club learnt by its previous mistakes and get in place not only a squad of players able to compete at this level rather than at championship level but also a management team with the proven ability to source an adequate squad and manage it against PL opposition?

 

[Oldsparkey]

a management team with the proven ability to source an adequate squad and manage it against PL opposition?

Nin - that last point of yours is very emotive but nonetheless needs to be considered.

It may be a hard thing to contemplate, but survival should mean with or without Warnock. He's done a great job getting us here and to be fair to him may not have been given the tools to do the job. As a result of his poor judgement on such as Madine and Tomlin, would you trust him with another £20M+ at this level in January?

You can cite Jokanavic at Fulham getting it wrong with money spent but that's just an exception (so far) that proves the rule. Howe, Hughton and Ranieri had the financial backing for their judgement, and have built decent squads that have kept them in the Prem - in the case of Leicester, much further than just that.

Difficult to juggle cash made available with the abilty of the manager to spend it wisely - to that extent the jury is still out for Warnock at this level.

If he stays and pulls it off, then he will have deemed to have worked a miracle. On the other hand if we look like going down with a whimper, there should be some serious questions asked and decisions made.

 

[ninian opinion]

Nin - that last point of yours is very emotive but nonetheless needs to be considered.

It may be a hard thing to contemplate, but survival should mean with or without Warnock. He's done a great job getting us here and to be fair to him may not have been given the tools to do the job. As a result of his poor judgement on such as Madine and Tomlin, would you trust him with another £20M+ at this level in January?

You can cite Jokanavic at Fulham getting it wrong with money spent but that's just an exception (so far) that proves the rule. Howe, Hughton and Ranieri had the financial backing for their judgement, and have built decent squads that have kept them in the Prem - in the case of Leicester, much further than just that.

Difficult to juggle cash made available with the abilty of the manager to spend it wisely - to that extent the jury is still out for Warnock at this level.

If he stays and pulls it off, then he will have deemed to have worked a miracle. On the other hand if we look like going down with a whimper, there should be some serious questions asked and decisions made.

I should have added (1) it’s not all about Warnock but I question whether Blackwell & Jepson are up to it; (2) whether Warnock, knowing he’s “failed” at this level before needed better qualified and proven assistants and should have asked for it and (3) whether the club should have been sourcing guidance from ex players/experts/consultants more attuned to the PL as it is in 2018 regardless of Warnock’s opinions.

I suspect Warnock would have not welcomed (3) in any way shape or form but the club is bigger than one man’s ego.

Don’t get me wrong; I am a huge Warnock fan and was so even as an opposition manager and was thrilled he came
to City but surely I can’t be the only one who was uncomfortable with him overseeing City in the PL.

 

[remote]

Sorry to sound like a parrot, but Colin is better when he hasn't got money. The problem is, not spending money will see you get relegated.
To be honest, taking loyalty out of the equation, we should have got a different manager in the summer, but I don't begrudge him his shot in this league. It's unfinished business for him, the only thing missing from his CV.
However, some managers are better at getting out of leagues than staying in them. Think Warnock falls into the former. We wouldn't be here without him, but we probably won't stay here with him. Problem is, I'm not sure what the alternative is. Not heard (m)any names mentioned.
Think it's brilliant what he's done for us over the last 99 games and I'm thankful for that, but.......

 

[ninian opinion]

Remote, what he did last season was just unbelievable and amazing but IMO it’s horses for courses that counts.

 

[Oldsparkey]

Don’t get me wrong; I am a huge Warnock fan and was so even as an opposition manager and was thrilled he came
to City but surely I can’t be the only one who was uncomfortable with him overseeing City in the PL.

I agree about the first part of your sentence and no, you are not the only one for the second part.

I must say I was dubious when we came up as to his credentials (methods?) at this level. Back slapping the "great bunch of lads in the dressing room" may be OK for the lower divisions but this is a different planet up here.

Managers and their staff need to be in tune with what's needed to be done at this level. If that means you become more sanguine about the whole thing, so be it.

 

[ninian opinion]

I agree about the first part of your sentence and no, you are not the only one for the second part.

I must say I was dubious when we came up as to his credentials (methods?) at this level. Back slapping the "great bunch of lads in the dressing room" may be OK for the lower divisions but this is a different planet up here.

Managers and their staff need to be in tune with what's needed to be done at this level. If that means you become more sanguine about the whole thing, so be it.

Yes but I’m not sure how anyone can be positive though given the circumstances

 

[Oldsparkey]

Yes but I’m not sure how anyone can be positive though given the circumstances

Not really positives Nin - my OP on the thread was quietly taking the piss.

If it was just down to effort and committment I doubt we'd have a problem. The big mistake that's been made is that it would be sufficient on its' own.

Massive miscalculation (or unwillingmess to fund it) of player skill levels required to compete up here will cost us dearly unless 3 other sides let us off the hook.

Despite my reservations, I still think there is time to sort this, but as each game passes with the same tactical naivity on display, it'll become more difficult - something has got to change and that's down to management.

Both Burnley and Leicester at the CCS could have been beaten - at the very least a point from each game was begging. More below par home performances like those two - and that includes the poor tactical performances from the touchline - when tackling potential point gathering games will make a difficult task almost impossible.

We constantly live in hope - it's the last thing that dies.

 

[Blue Sheep]

Don't understand what everyone's so miserable about - we're only 7 points away from the TARGET with another 81 points available.

Should be achievable

 

[ninian opinion]

For once I reckon this journo has summed it up pretty well although he didn’t mention the problems at right back and in central defence.

https://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport...ious-cardiff-city-shortcomings-being-15381646

 

[suprimir]

If Warnock had not of been kept on, I think nearly all, including the horses for courses people, would have said it was a travesty. The owner and board kept faith with the staff that got us here. That seems reasonable.

The owner may, however, have felt that he did it on the cheap once, so he can do it again. The previous experience played a part in that as well. I think Warnock's continuous reference to not getting that striker we need shows that he probably wanted more than he was given,

The pathetic form of Hoilett has really hurt us. I think we thought he would be able to hold his own. Looks like we were wrong. Zahore, well, I feel a bit sorry for him.l I truly don't understand why he hasn't been given a lot more time (prior to injury) to try to get up to speed. If he had 8 or 9 full games under his belt by now, he may be looking better. What did we have to lose up front anyway?

Right now, we are still in it somehow. Really, we should have more points even with our cheap squad. Each week we look better in the middle third. The defense is adjusting, but we more up front.