Poor Gooners 2!

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Does Wenger have a bit of a problem buying defenders? Can't think of them all now but there have been a fair few dodgy ones, haven't there?

Arsenal are in a very bad way right now. But then selling two of your three best players (by far) is always gonna be tricky. Can Wenger be blamed for not getting rid of them sooner and getting replacements in?

Arteta must be wondering why he took that pay cut...

But do Wengerites now feel that Wenger cannot turn this around? That, for all his success and ability, it's just time for the kick up the backside that a new face brings? They've been poor for many months now.

As a Spurs fan I think I'd love to see the back of Wenger - I'll be amazed and gutted if someone else could do as good a job as he has.

Come on Arsenal - bring Tony Adams in. Ian Wright as assistant. I'd LOVE it.
 
I think that he struggles with keepers too, Lenny.

Why doesn't he bring George Graham in as a defensive coordinator or something?
He's probably past it as a manager, but he certainly knew how to organise a back line.

Song hasn't helped their cause, either.
In the season before last he was excellent, but then he dyed his hair and started to think that he had to do more offensively.
If he concentrated on doing what he's there for, then they'd concede far less.
 
Spurs fans will remember, with no atom of fondness, that appalling Brazilian "left back" that we panic-bought a couple of seasons ago. What was his name? My subconscious is obviously trying to forget.

I have a bit of a pet theory about Brazilian full-backs and it goes something like this:

"They're all over-rated at best and bloody awful at worst."

It seems to me that, in Brazil, if you quite like getting forward but are not a good enough finisher to be a striker or good enough on the ball to be a midfielder but you can't defend for toffee then you become a full-back. It's where all the crap strikers/wingers end up.

Gilberto! That was him! He was AWFUL.
 
PNP - this Szceszny(?) looks pretty good, though. Buying keepers can be a tricky business. Unless, of course, you do something obvious like buy a Friedel (esp when he went to Villa) or a Jaaskelainen or even (for Blackburn it was always going to be a good buy) a Robinson. Or, this season, a Given (again for Villa).

Actually - now I come to think of it - it looks pretty easy to buy solid goalkeepers!
 
Don't think that he wanted to be in England and certainly didn't look like a player that had 35 caps for Brazil.
Still managed to score against West Ham though, which tells you something.
We were 2-0 up with about 20 minutes to go and they'd lost their previous 2 games 4-0.
Their fans started singing, "You're ****, cos it's not 4-0!", so the team went on and got another 2!
 
Chesney Hawks looks like a very good prospect Lenny, but I still feel that they might have done better bringing in an experienced, older keeper and loaning him out.
They definitely should've done that last season with both him and Fabianski.

Playing for them now will probably be good for him in the long run though, as long as they don't do irreparable damage to his confidence.
 
SamirNasriIsAWanker said:
PNP

Santos was clearly a panic buy. I realised this as when he was interviewed by Arsenal.com, he was asked when Arsenal were interested in him and he said it was a big shock and that we came out of the blue. I think it was after the Man United game IMO, but he was bought out of anguish.

Mertesacker was because we couldn't get Cahill and so Mertesacker was second choice. I think Wenger was so confident in signing Cahill, that he didn't expect Coyle to turn us down, even though our bid was apparently £5 million, which to be fair, is a little insulting.

Arteta was because we couldn't get Gourcuff or Hazard and Benayoun likewise.

I agree that if we had snapped them up before pre-season the team may have got into their stride and we may not have gotten some of the freak results which we have done.

The goals we conceded today were just pathetic, though. Championship standard defending.

The problem is not with the players, but with the style of management. Wenger has no defensive awareness and hasn't tried to get the defence to be more cohesive. We didn't have any leaders in the back line either. No-one to help and collaborate the back four.

Apparently, 14 goals in 5 games is the most goals conceded in opening 5 games since Derby in 2007 <yikes> That speaks volume.
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You've only got one defender worthy of the name, and he's always injured - Vermaelen!
 
Yeah - those 35 caps for Brazil! I'd known before that, for various reasons in all their tournaments and qualification campaigns, a lot of players got caps for Brazil who weren't really "Brazilian international" standard. but that guy cemented it for me. A few Brazil caps (or even 35 of them) means very little.

Something about Chesney makes me think that he is a very confident young man. So not sure that that's a concern.

Hopefully I'm wrong, though, and he joins in with the rest of the team in having some sort of mental breakdown, signing for some team in Europe summer after next for £1.5m to "relaunch" his career.

You've got to dream...
 
That's not true, NSIS.
Sagna's a good right-back and, er... yeah.

It's too early to judge either Mertesacker or Santos.
I don't rate the German much, though and I've yet to see virtually anything of the Brazilian.
 
Koscielny's erratic.
One week he looks excellent and the next he looks dire.
I think he needs a steady head next to him to keep his concentration levels up and to aid his positional sense.
Someone that talks a lot.
 
SamirNasriIsA****** said:
Come on, I don't think many people would have expected Arsenal to have 4 points after the opening 5 games and a goal difference of -8, whether Fabregas and Nasri left or not.

I'm still on the fence on whether you're a wum or not, though.
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The reasons why I said (and still believe) you will struggle to finish in the top half of the EPL this season are:-

(1) you collapsed spectacularly in the final quarter of last season, even more than you usually do

(2) you lost four quality first team regulars in the Summer transfer window (albeit that you Gooners only seem to think you lost two quality players)

(3) you didn't bring in any of the players that you really wanted to bring in

(4) the players you did bring in would not have made it onto the bench of the "Invincibles" team, and have not strengthened your team

(5) far too much expectancy has been placed too soon on the shoulders of young players, such as Wilshere and Ramsey, who are now expected to carry your team

(6) Wenger hasn't looked convincing for four or five seasons now, and you were due a major fall from grace, even without the shambles that has unfolded

Had I been nothing more than a wum, I would simply have made disparaging remarks about your team without backing it up with any arguments. Now, you might not agree with my arguments (upon which I have founded my opinion), but that's called "debate" and "holding an honest and reasonable opinion" not "wummery."

And if you must know - and as I have said on several occasions now - I'd rather that you were not in such a pathetic state, because I want my beloved Spurs to finish above a strong, well-organised Arsenal, so that we can prove to the footballing world (especially the delusional Scousers) exactly how much we have improved, despite our severe financial constraints. When we finish above you this season, everyone (including you Gooners) will have the ready-made excuse that "we were a shadow of the team we used to be" and that would be the truth of the matter.

As it is, I am accused of being a wum simply because some (perhaps a minority) of the fans on your board refuse to accept the very serious plight that your club is currently facing.
 
I really can't see them finishing any lower than 6th, to be honest.
Who do you expect to finish in the top half, HIAG?
Man Utd, Citeh, Chelsea, us and Liverpool would have to have very poor season to drop out, but then who?
Stoke seem to have a good squad, Moyes will probably do his usual top job with Everton and...?
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
I really can't see them finishing any lower than 6th, to be honest.
Who do you expect to finish in the top half, HIAG?
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If they keep playing the way they have played (even when they've won), I can see just about anyone finishing above them. Let's face it, they lost today against a team that will be fighting a relegation battle.

I think - as I have said before - it all depends on what Wenger does in the January transfer window. Arsenal has a very talented squad that is merely incredibly demoralised (which is something that we can all empathize with, as that's exactly how we were just before Harry came in), and it could take only a couple of inspirational buys to turn their season round. It all depends on (a) whether or not Wenger will be sacked before then, and (b) whether or not they can get their hands on the players they need, bearing in mind that the players they need are going to cost them a kings ransom.
 
Now come on HIAG, they're not relegation candidates!
They've had a bad start and don't have a settled side, but losing to a team at the bottom doesn't really mean anything.
We lost to West Ham and Blackpool last year and they were both ****e.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Now come on HIAG, they're not relegation candidates!
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Indeed, not. And, to be fair, that's not what I've said.

I think they will finish in the top half of the table, but it is going to be a struggle for them... IF nothing changes.

Even when we were bottom of the EPL, and even if we had stuck with Ramos, I still don't believe we would have been relegated, and I don't believe that will happen to Arsenal.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Koscielny's erratic.
One week he looks excellent and the next he looks dire.
I think he needs a steady head next to him to keep his concentration levels up and to aid his positional sense.
Someone that talks a lot.
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I don't, and never have, rated Koscielny. He's an accident that all too frequently happens.
 
PleaseNotPoll said:
Koscielny's erratic.
One week he looks excellent and the next he looks dire.
I think he needs a steady head next to him to keep his concentration levels up and to aid his positional sense.
Someone that talks a lot.
Click to expand...

Koscielney made a lot of bad errors today, overall our defence threw away another game <grr>
Nothing wrong going forward.
But I think we still need another top CB
Vermaelen and Mertesacker are our first choice.
The others are not up to the job in my opinion.
 
A lot of your lot were praising Song before this game, but he made a lot of errors today. It shocked me, because, before today, I actually rated Song.
 
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