Off Topic Politics Thread

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I'm living here in Serbia. I'm receiving a small monthly pension from the Pru of £259 which I paid into for a few years in the 80s. Pre Brexit I was exchanging that for 168 Serbian dinars to spend here, now I'm getting 140 dinars. That's a reduction of 17% or if you like, my £259 is now worth £215.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
It was a good performance from Pence in that he had a good demeanor, and got some important GOP platform points across. He presented himself very well. He stuck more to substance when given the chance as opposed to Kaine, who mostly just attacked Trump the whole time. But then, I can hardly blame Kaine (or anyone) for pointing out how completely awful Trump would be as President, and how much he lies.

It was a bad performance from Pence in that he had to do the impossible, which is try to defend Trump. Which kept him on the backfoot, and made him look stupid at times with ridiculous attempts to spin the completely stupid and inane into something approaching rationality.

If those two had been running for President without baggage of Trump/Clinton, Pence would have crushed Kaine. As it is, I don't think either side managed to do enough to change anyone's minds at all. Pence would have set himself up for a nice Presidential run in four years, except he is now tied to Trump.
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I don't ever want to see a Republican President as they are all Ultra Conservatives. Their social policies suck. I much prefer the progressive policies as forwarded by the ALDE group of MEPs in the European Parliament. For the sack of humanity we need reforming and progressive policies that are environmentally friendly.
 
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Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations

International trade secretary under fire for remarks suggesting uncertainty about EU citizens’ future is tactical

Liam Fox reiterated at a fringe event that there would be no commitment on the rights of the 2 million EU citizens.

The uncertain status of EU nationals living in the UK is “one of our main cards” in the Brexit negotiations with the bloc, Liam Fox has said.

Speaking at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the international trade secretary reiterated that no commitment would be given on the rights of 2 million EU citizens to remain in the UK until reciprocal rights were agreed for British citizens in Europe.

Fox, who was speaking at a fringe event, said the government would “like to be able to give a reassurance to EU nationals in the UK, but that depends on reciprocation by other countries”.

He said any other strategy “would be to hand over one of our main cards in the negotiations and doesn’t necessarily make sense at this point”.

Hinting that a scenario could emerge where EU nationals currently in the UK were not given automatic leave to remain, Fox said: “If we do [negotiations] from the premise that the EU ‘ever closer union’ project is more important than the people, and those who go against it must be punished, we will not get such a good outcome.

“That’s what the skill of our government will be tested on, if we can get the former, and not lead Europe into the latter.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-remain-in-uk

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May has gone insane.
 
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davecg69 said:
Very good, Lambo. I hope those who voted "Leave" won't be moaning next year when their holiday to Spain, Greece ..... is 20-30% more expensive and the pound is at parity to the Euro.
As one for whom the majority of his pension is in US$, I can't say I'm exactly happy. My only saving grace (God help me) would be that Donald gets in in November because that would truly screw up the dollar!
As for your hope that the Tories won't get in again, dream on. Unless Jeremy sorts things out pronto, it'll be years before we have any credible opposition (in my opinion)
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Oh mate. I am under no illusions. Corbyn has less chance of being PM than my cat. All I was saying that there is always another election. We won't get a chance to right the Brexit fiasco.
 
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Beefy said:
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Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations

International trade secretary under fire for remarks suggesting uncertainty about EU citizens’ future is tactical

Liam Fox reiterated at a fringe event that there would be no commitment on the rights of the 2 million EU citizens.

The uncertain status of EU nationals living in the UK is “one of our main cards” in the Brexit negotiations with the bloc, Liam Fox has said.

Speaking at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the international trade secretary reiterated that no commitment would be given on the rights of 2 million EU citizens to remain in the UK until reciprocal rights were agreed for British citizens in Europe.

Fox, who was speaking at a fringe event, said the government would “like to be able to give a reassurance to EU nationals in the UK, but that depends on reciprocation by other countries”.

He said any other strategy “would be to hand over one of our main cards in the negotiations and doesn’t necessarily make sense at this point”.

Hinting that a scenario could emerge where EU nationals currently in the UK were not given automatic leave to remain, Fox said: “If we do [negotiations] from the premise that the EU ‘ever closer union’ project is more important than the people, and those who go against it must be punished, we will not get such a good outcome.

“That’s what the skill of our government will be tested on, if we can get the former, and not lead Europe into the latter.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-remain-in-uk

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May has gone insane.
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unfortunately whilst 99% of the population (that includes everyone on this forum) are bickering about the best way to screw each other for a buck or 2 the 1% are living til they're 100 relaxed in the fact that over the last 1,000 years we still haven't found a way to get their money and put it to good!
 
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Beefy said:
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Liam Fox: EU nationals in UK one of 'main cards' in Brexit negotiations

International trade secretary under fire for remarks suggesting uncertainty about EU citizens’ future is tactical

Liam Fox reiterated at a fringe event that there would be no commitment on the rights of the 2 million EU citizens.

The uncertain status of EU nationals living in the UK is “one of our main cards” in the Brexit negotiations with the bloc, Liam Fox has said.

Speaking at the Conservative party conference in Birmingham, the international trade secretary reiterated that no commitment would be given on the rights of 2 million EU citizens to remain in the UK until reciprocal rights were agreed for British citizens in Europe.

Fox, who was speaking at a fringe event, said the government would “like to be able to give a reassurance to EU nationals in the UK, but that depends on reciprocation by other countries”.

He said any other strategy “would be to hand over one of our main cards in the negotiations and doesn’t necessarily make sense at this point”.

Hinting that a scenario could emerge where EU nationals currently in the UK were not given automatic leave to remain, Fox said: “If we do [negotiations] from the premise that the EU ‘ever closer union’ project is more important than the people, and those who go against it must be punished, we will not get such a good outcome.

“That’s what the skill of our government will be tested on, if we can get the former, and not lead Europe into the latter.”

https://www.theguardian.com/politics...o-remain-in-uk

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May has gone insane.
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Fox is a disgrace to the Conservative Party. I have never been a Conservative but where are the sage voices of Heseltine, Clarke, Mellor, even John Major. What is William Hague doing out of politics at his age? Is there now any difference between the lunacy of the Conservative policies and the farce offer up by UKIP? It makes the offerings of Rajoy seem like sanity!!

Maybe we should all join local Conservative parties to kick out the extremists and provide MPs who seek to continue the UK's membership of the EU!!!!
 
This has gone down well...

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I feel kinda like at least May threw the cards on the table. Being a politician she but a ridiculous positive spin on the whole thing, but to me at least she drew a line in the sand and revealed where her priorities lie. She cares more about the immigration aspects than the economic impact of Brexit. Okay, then.

I have a bit of a moral issue and a lot of logical questions about viewing things in this manner. But it's still a step up from "Don't listen to anything anyone says, it's going to be better in every way, just don't hold me to it" BS that Farage was peddling. If you believe that 3 people out of work because jobs disappeared is better than 3 people working but 1 of them is an immigrant then she's your woman. You're stupid, but at least you weren't duped.
 
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The UK is spinning towards being a second rate economic power, joining the likes of Portugal instead of being at the top table along with Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Finland. So much for the apparent ideal of regaining "Sovereignty" when the UK is going to be so dependent on its energy needs being imported. So much for regaining "Sovereignty" when the UK still has to "bend the knee" in all matters to the US led NATO. And lastly, how much say does Joe Public ever get in the running of the country......answer, "nunca."
 
The Ides of March said:
The UK is spinning towards being a second rate economic power, joining the likes of Portugal instead of being at the top table along with Germany, the Netherlands, Sweden and Finland. So much for the apparent ideal of regaining "Sovereignty" when the UK is going to be so dependent on its energy needs being imported. So much for regaining "Sovereignty" when the UK still has to "bend the knee" in all matters to the US led NATO. And lastly, how much say does Joe Public ever get in the running of the country......answer, "nunca."
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Oh come, come. (As Theresa was clearly humming along with Mick and Keith). You are so wrong. Well, yes we are about to fall in the world's pecking order somewhere behind any banana republic you'd like to name. But your final point is so wrong. We do have a say. X factor? Strictly Come Dancing? That referendum thingy was a shining example of true democracy. Make a highly complex issue accessible to the people by telling a series of half truths and lies and let them decide. Genius.

I do ponder whether Karl Marx would still describe religion as the opiate of the masses. There are now so many choices!

EDIT Just thought about a Marxist hero of mine, AJP Taylor the historian. He once declared that the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. I refer the right honourable prick, yes you Foxy, to the history of the Third Reich!
 
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Actually, on reflection I realise I am being harsh on Foxy. He is clearly unwell. That comment about golf playing company directors a few weeks back rang alarm bells. His latest rants only confirm suspicions.

So we have a choice. He is either a) deranged or b) one of those politicians who feels he can speak authoritatively on any topic without knowing the first thing about the topic in hand. Clearly it would be kinder to have the poor man sectioned.
 
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Missing Lambo said:
Oh come, come. (As Theresa was clearly humming along with Mick and Keith). You are so wrong. Well, yes we are about to fall in the world's pecking order somewhere behind any banana republic you'd like to name. But your final point is so wrong. We do have a say. X factor? Strictly Come Dancing? That referendum thingy was a shining example of true democracy. Make a highly complex issue accessible to the people by telling a series of half truths and lies and let them decide. Genius.

I do ponder whether Karl Marx would still describe religion as the opiate of the masses. There are now so many choices!

EDIT Just thought about a Marxist hero of mine, AJP Taylor the historian. He once declared that the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. I refer the right honourable prick, yes you Foxy, to the history of the Third Reich!
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Hang on a minute here... you telling me that the X factor is full of half truths and lies.... my weekend just got wrecked :eek:
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
I feel kinda like at least May threw the cards on the table. Being a politician she but a ridiculous positive spin on the whole thing, but to me at least she drew a line in the sand and revealed where her priorities lie. She cares more about the immigration aspects than the economic impact of Brexit. Okay, then.

I have a bit of a moral issue and a lot of logical questions about viewing things in this manner. But it's still a step up from "Don't listen to anything anyone says, it's going to be better in every way, just don't hold me to it" BS that Farage was peddling. If you believe that 3 people out of work because jobs disappeared is better than 3 people working but 1 of them is an immigrant then she's your woman. You're stupid, but at least you weren't duped.
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Not necessarily what she cares about most but it is what the referendum indicated the majority of the public who voted wants.

Impsaint can probably address your second point about British workers being affected by immigration much better than I can.
 
Missing Lambo said:
Oh come, come. (As Theresa was clearly humming along with Mick and Keith). You are so wrong. Well, yes we are about to fall in the world's pecking order somewhere behind any banana republic you'd like to name. But your final point is so wrong. We do have a say. X factor? Strictly Come Dancing? That referendum thingy was a shining example of true democracy. Make a highly complex issue accessible to the people by telling a series of half truths and lies and let them decide. Genius.

I do ponder whether Karl Marx would still describe religion as the opiate of the masses. There are now so many choices!

EDIT Just thought about a Marxist hero of mine, AJP Taylor the historian. He once declared that the only thing we learn from history is that we learn nothing from history. I refer the right honourable prick, yes you Foxy, to the history of the Third Reich!
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Mine is Eric Hobsbawm!!
 
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Whiteley Saint said:
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-lancashire-37567866

Fracking agreed by Government after being refused by local council. I understand the possible energy benefits but I'm not at all happy with it environmentally.
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There are plenty of other ways to generate energy such as solar, wind and tidal. Imagine how much can be generated if the Government gave a grant to every householder to instal solar panels. The money spent by the Government here would be offset by savings on investing in new (Chinese owned) nuclear power plants.
 
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The Ides of March said:
There are plenty of other ways to generate energy such as solar, wind and tidal. Imagine how much can be generated if the Government gave a grant to every householder to instal solar panels. The money spent by the Government here would be offset by savings on investing in new (Chinese owned) nuclear power plants.
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I'd have solar panels if it wasn't so expensive so if a grant was available I'd be very interested. The thought of drilling down into the earth and blasting a high-pressure mixture of water, sand and chemicals at the rock to release the gas inside just sounds dangerous to me. Reports of water pollution and earth tremors don't help.
 
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