Off Topic Politics Thread

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ImpSaint said:
Exactly. This is not something that has only just built up. We have gone from a hundred years ago in a similar postiion to where we have returned having had a brief fleeting moment of relative parity in the middle. Just these days with social media and people so wired into the "matrix" people are so easily "manouevred" by people with power into being the protectors of a way of life that most people don't really know nor can comprehend yet feel "obliged" to follow because everything everywhere says it is normal and the only acceptable way.
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Could be worse though mate. You live in England, remember? You could be in the middle east digging your family out of the rubble.

A quote from Ross Noble; "Even if you're having a ****ty day in the rain in this country, you're still winning life's lottery. At least everything's not on fire".
 
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Archers Road said:
Could be worse though mate. You live in England, remember? You could be in the middle east digging your family out of the rubble.

A quote from Ross Noble; "Even if you're having a ****ty day in the rain in this country, you're still winning life's lottery. At least everything's not on fire".
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Oh I agree. We moan about a life that is incomparible to the hardships all over the world. Doesn't mean we should just give up though. After all the wealth just of those in the UK could feed the world IF (and I don't suggest this) we all collectively gave up the £ we didn't need to survive. What we see as only trimmings would still go a long way to helping other people out but normally it is those pretty close to the bottom who give most to charity anyway (in relative terms.)
 
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A comment I saw:

"At a time when, as he said, more than a dozen police have been mass-murdered by black racist terrorists acting in Liberalism's name Hillary has been stoking the flames of racial hatred for votes. She's going to have the mother of Michael Brown, etc. on stage with her at the convention. Her Brown-shirts have been in the streets assaulting anyone who disagrees with them all year, to the basic smirking silence of Clinton, adding that unique stench of early 1930s Germany to the campaign. But Trump's the mad one. And his supporters are the bigots.

This is why Trump has been untouchable, the ideas and actions of the established elite throughout the Western world are so bad, so corrupt, so destructive, that it is almost impossible to do worse. Monsieur Hollande insists we'll just have to get used to being murdered en masse by Islamic terrorists, because, you know, there couldn't POSSIBLY be a policy that would actually reduce the chances, it's just unthinkable to all right thinking people, in the salons of Paris and the saloons of London. The correctly perceived sense of civilizational crack-up couldn't possible have anything to do with the cultural hegemony of the left."
 
There is nothing you can do for someone like that.

Conservatives hold 30 out of 50 state Governerships. They control the House and the Senate with the greatest majority in 50 plus years. If they were a little smarter about things and didn't infight so much amongst themselves they would have even more control at all levels of government, and very likely the Presidency as well.

Obama hasn't been able to get much of anything done for six years because of conservative control. He can't even get Federal justices appointed or even Supreme Court Justices because the conservatives won't approve them. That's why government is not working so well.

The idea that voting for the candidate of one major party regardless of qualification or policy because the other party is horrible and corrupt and is to blame for everything is hardly a revolution. It's the most depressing example of politics as usual.

And after all this complaining about government corruption and incompetence, they want to vote to give the government unprecedented powers. If the government takes too much in taxes, it's an unconscionable seizure of power. But they are fine with giving the government the ability to kill people, to ban religion, to force people to carry ID cards, etc.

The trick of course, is who you define as "people." This is what Jon Stewart was getting at. Anyone who disagrees with the far right is viewed as not American and therefore not a real person.

You really can't equate the two sides. The left/blacks/etc. are not asking for Christians to leave the country. Or trying to build a wall to separate themselves from whites.

When did conservatives go from "Don't expect the government to hold your hand, everyone needs to take responsibility and stand up for themselves and you can be whatever you want" to "I can't get what I want. Waaaaah, it's all the fault of the left for picking on me!"
 
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I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
You really can't equate the two sides. The left/blacks/etc. are not asking for Christians to leave the country. Or trying to build a wall to separate themselves from whites.
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I agree with your post although this is a little cheeky. The left/blacks/hispanics are still majority Christian as well.
 
Donald Trump is a scary man. Rants on for an hour making lots of statements but with no indication of how he's going to achieve the things he is saying and people just seem to believe him! It is amazing to me that so many will vote for him because he is supposedly different. He could say he was going to extend the US into Canada and no one would question him. Crazy stuff.
 
Whiteley Saint said:
Donald Trump is a scary man. Rants on for an hour making lots of statements but with no indication of how he's going to achieve the things he is saying and people just seem to believe him! It is amazing to me that so many will vote for him because he is supposedly different. He could say he was going to extend the US into Canada and no one would question him. Crazy stuff.
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Well either of two things will happen. 1] The USA have enough intelligent people and enough others who will eventually see through the whole she-bang, or 2] they'll elect him.

Frankly, my opinion of people doing the logical right thing is at an all time low. So from here I can see the bloke as President. Where's the furthest place from the fallout zone.? Pitcairn.?
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Well either of two things will happen. 1] The USA have enough intelligent people and enough others who will eventually see through the whole she-bang, or 2] they'll elect him.

Frankly, my opinion of people doing the logical right thing is at an all time low. So from here I can see the bloke as President. Where's the furthest place from the fallout zone.? Pitcairn.?
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I agree I would have said they have more sense and won't elect him but then what is sense to me is not to others as I have discovered.
 
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TheSecondStain said:
Well either of two things will happen. 1] The USA have enough intelligent people and enough others who will eventually see through the whole she-bang, or 2] they'll elect him.

Frankly, my opinion of people doing the logical right thing is at an all time low. So from here I can see the bloke as President. Where's the furthest place from the fallout zone.? Pitcairn.?
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I think the same although I don't buy the "too stupid to realise he isn't going to be able do do what he says". Same as over here. they have had enough and want the dictatorship of elite establishment (TPTB) shaking in the hope that some of the money falls back down to them.

Most people aren't voting UKIP or Trump or Front National because they want "all the foreigners sent home" or because "we want the muslims out". They are sick of voting one way for the elite and then the other way for the same elite and seeing no change other than business as usual and the acceptance that this is just how it is has come to an end. People the western world over have had enough and are voting for people that they know cannot fulfill the promises they make purely because they are promising to topple the tower. They don't really care what will happen afterwards as long as the tower falls down and they then feel in this modern day that they will have some say in how to build its replacement.

In terms of Trump I thought he was just batshit crazy fruitloop of the kind that Farage haters can only dream of portraying him as but last night's speech was so damning of the status quo, what has come before it and what would continue that even with its many "incorrect" figures it just told people they were right.

I think Trump is toxic and "polarising" but these politicians should have realised that calling people names is no longer going to work and Hilary is so toxic in comparison that she has no choice but to attack her opponent because there is no way she can sell herself.
 
Not really getting all the Hillary hate. You can keep saying she's "toxic" and I suppose eventually that will stick, but she has years of experience in government. I suppose if you blindly reject all govt then that in itself is the problem, but in reality she is fairly liberal very hard working administrator with very strong relationships - and this may get her over the line - with black and hispanic communities across the US.
 
Archers Road said:
Not really getting all the Hillary hate. You can keep saying she's "toxic" and I suppose eventually that will stick, but she has years of experience in government. I suppose if you blindly reject all govt then that in itself is the problem, but in reality she is fairly liberal very hard working administrator with very strong relationships - and this may get her over the line - with black and hispanic communities across the US.
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She is absolutely hated in the US. It isn't just the establishment. It is all the back story and baggage. It was bad enough before she got caught using dodgy computers and deleting e-mails.
 
I Sorry I Ruined The Party said:
Umm.... what? Calling people names is Trump's entire campaign strategy.
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They all do but it is all about who is doing the name calling and what the names are. Calling people racist, liars, bigots, fascists doesn't wash to many people anymore because it has been used far too much whether it is warranted or (in many more cases) not and is now seen as just the establishment line to close down debate.

Trump calling the establishment names is far different.

They should be learning from what they see around the western world. Calling Farage or Boris names has not even dented their rise. It has just strengthened their argument. Its always "see.......we tell the truth and they just shout RACIST."

You and I can see that but like said to me the other week "if people are stupid enough to vote UKIP." It is nothing to do with stupid enough. It is about what other choice is there when every establishment option is the same policy with a different colour and the teeniest amendments all in order to maintain the status quo. And People are not happy with that status quo anymore.

How long before someone actually gets this? The SNP were a fringe party. They rallied against the "Westminster government" and won very very quickly. UKIP went from nothing to 4 million votes despite losing a lot of votes to the Tory referendum pledge. Trump is doing the same in the US. Austria just got caught cheating to keep the far right anti EU candidate from winning. Germany and France next year? Which will be the first to actually wake up and start addressing normal people's concerns rather than just sticking their fingers in their ears?
 
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In case you missed it the NUS, you know that friendly union of enlightened students who earlier this year told the LGBT societies to ditch gay men reps because 'gay men don't face oppression' and also argued that they shouldn't observe Holocaust memorial day because it wasn't inclusive enough, have denied Jewish students the right to say who will represent them on the NUS's group for Anti-Racism and Anti-Fascism.

I guess they wanted to act all grown up like their role models in Labour & UKIP... It staggers me that left wing groups, like Labour and the NUS, have such viewpoints and be cultures where they can flourish.
 
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ImpSaint said:
They all do but it is all about who is doing the name calling and what the names are. Calling people racist, liars, bigots, fascists doesn't wash to many people anymore because it has been used far too much whether it is warranted or (in many more cases) not and is now seen as just the establishment line to close down debate.
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Yes. When the name calling is done by people they disagree with, they get angry. When they are they are the ones doing the name calling it's perfectly okay.

These people are not anti-establishment in any way. Remember that the entire RNC theme for the first day was "law and order." They are only mad at the current "establishment" (which is actually not even the establishment since as I noted before, the right is in almost total control of the government) because the establishment is not doing what they want.
 
St.Jerome said:
In case you missed it the NUS, you know that friendly union of enlightened students who earlier this year told the LGBT societies to ditch gay men reps because 'gay men don't face oppression' and also argued that they shouldn't observe Holocaust memorial day because it wasn't inclusive enough, have denied Jewish students the right to say who will represent them on the NUS's group for Anti-Racism and Anti-Fascism.

I guess they wanted to act all grown up like their role models in Labour & UKIP... It staggers me that left wing groups, like Labour and the NUS, have such viewpoints and be cultures where they can flourish.
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The NUS are clowns. Far too busy trying to involve themselves in major issues than, y'know, being an actual union for students across the country.

I ended my membership and have never felt that I wanted to renew it. In fact, I favour the dissolution of the whole thing. But hey, ain't happening.
 
I watched a documentary on PBS the other night about the Black Panthers. Richard Nixon came to power in 1968 promising to stamp out sedition, restore order, and come down hard on all challenges to authority. He talked repeatedly about law and order, and his mantra was "this is a country of laws". How ironic that the law and order president turned out to be an absolute crook with no respect for the law.

Nothing in the world is new. All this stuff has happened before, but unless we can learn from history, we are condemned to repeat it.
 
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