Off Topic Politics Thread

Much as I preferred Craig Ferguson waaaay more, James Corden is plowing his own furrow, and Michelle Obama is a delight. The rap music I can live without, but Stevie Wonder still hits a spot of two.

 

Trump isn't holding anything back in his speech. Absolutely slating the Clintons and Obama.

"Americanism not globalism will be our credo"

I think we'll hear that a lot in the next 6 months.

 

It's arguably the most horrifying speech I can remember. Normally, the fear-mongering is tampered a bit; not so with Trump. Richard Nixon would think that he was focusing too much on selling terror.

 

That was almost laughable there where he tried to "sincerely" support "our" LG (wince) BT (wince) and Q (double wince.)

Almost comical at times but is pure theatre and America is much different to the UK.

 

How can you say that? Tony Blair played head tennis with King Kev...

... Yes, you are so right. Very human and very real.

 

I already miss the Obamas. **** the 22nd Amendment.

 

I'm looking forward to Mrs Trump doing it. I think I can guess her song choices!

 

Mrs Trump will be far too busy spending the extra profits from this booming economy her husband has just said will happen............just like that...it will happen because he has said it will........err

 

She'll be in charge of Building Walls or Cultural Ambassador to Russia. I quite like the idea of Putin stuck in a room, with her on one side and Boris on the other, dreaming of the halcyon days of 2015.

Just a thought, why are the two most right wing politicians who advocate fierce immigration controls (Trump, Farage) married to, um, immigrants? Coincidence I guess.

 

I don't know. I am married to an immigrant as well yet am pretty fiercely in favour of immigration control? Are you suggesting there something strange going on?

As for Trump's speech (whisper rant) it sounded to me like he has a masterplan of building a wall around America to trap all the money which will then mean they can acquire it all for themselves to pay for cleaning up the whole of American Society. Also seems to be bringing about world peace by pulling all the troops back to America and destroying ISIS from the safety of American shores. I guess he will need all the troops back anyway to patrol his wall.

Oh well he''l never get in because there will be an alternative....................Ahhh but the alternative is even worse.......Hmmm.

In other news the kids on my street are walking up to each other with a finger in the air saying "we're going...........to build........A WALL" Its absolutely hilarious. Kids? Knowing about politics in America? How come? Because bloody CBBC's newsround is already at work trying to create the next lot of "the right way of thinking" people and haven't thought that kids will start repeating what they hear not analyzing what it meant.

The old man across the road is already getting a bit grumpy and shouting at them I've already got a wall, what are you on about. Wall, where? Now clear off, get off my grass and keep that football away from my car.

Maybe they could get my neighbour to help out America because she has been telling the kids where she'll stick their wall. Maybe she could tell Trump too.

 

This is why people are voting the way they are at the moment. It is because of this big corporate stuff that New Labour and then Cameron's Tories pushed through and no doubt May will show she is on the same route of financing the corps despite her "words" that we have heard from all of them.


Police staff throughout the county of Lincolnshire are now proudly wearing the logo of their corporate bosses, as government cuts force privatization of the nation’s peacekeepers.

http://wideshut.co.uk/say-hello-to-your-corporate-police/

 

I think the difference (certainly with Trump anyway) is his definition from fierce may be somewhat more extreme than yours, or indeed most of us. I'm always reminded how easy it is to be pompously 'politically correct' about issues like immigration control when you don't live in an area affected by it. My Father in Law (RIP) was someone who talked about the areas of Wolverhampton where he grew up becoming unrecognisable with language and culture changes. He wasn't racist or a wall builder but felt he had lost something important to him.

Also has everyone got a shouty, older neighbour in their street? Wouldn't mind losing ours, but maybe that's because it would open up a vacancy for me.

 

The facts suggest that anti immigrant sentiment is highest in areas with relatively few immigrants. This is bourne out by the fact Wales, Cornwall and Sunderland where heavily in favour of Brexit, wereas inner London voted 75% remain. See also the disastrous performance of Ukrap in London.

 

He is a nice old fella. The simple innocent but welcoming type like My Grandparents that you know is about to say "Doing a great job, you can do mine if you like" whenever you are washing the car/mowing the lawn/weeding/cleaning the windows. The usual predictablility.

I was more using the multi irony of a nice genteel welcoming not racist and undiscriminating fella, who quite likely is also angry at mainstream politicians that ignore people like him while diverting public money into profiteering private company's profits and maintaining that is is improving the care he receives. All this while at the same time feeling the need to protect his property i.e. stop playing football near my car..........or anywhere near my house......or anyone elses.

Plus I was being a little bit (OK a lot) facetious about how normal people are labelled as x because of their statement on one thing being different to what someone else considers hypocritical when they have a difference stance on something else.

It's a bit like John Stewart's rant last night. It's all very well saying that the country doesn't belong to Trump, Hannerty et al while all the time not realising that equally it doesn't belong to him.

It is all a question of what "we" means. In most cases like in Ayn Rand's anthem it means "I" and all we hear from both sides is "we" as if they are the consensus when quite clearly it is 2 sides proclaiming to be the purveyors of truth and to hell with what the reality somewhere lost in the middle is because "our snakeoil" is the real deal. It is like having to choose if you are buying the fake Saints shirt from the Taiwan seller or the Indian version without anyone ever saying Wake up these are fake shirts.

And yes I've gone off at a strange tangent there again.

 

You can say that but then you are sounding like Anna Soubry, who is a Nottingham MP and said "most of these people have never even met an immigrant" which just goes to show that they are just as loose with the truth as those they criticise. If she actually did listen to her constituents instead of saying she listened to them she would have known the anger and being an East Midlands Mp she should have known better than to suggest that considering the current demographics of this region.

You are also making that same generalising of heavily in favour of Brexit meaning anti immigrant. Not many in the country are anti immigrant but they are very critical of immigration. There is a very big difference which many people in this country are insistent does not exist to try and make anti-immigrant and anti-UNCONTROLLED immigration the same thing. Media and establishment are very deliberately trying to make these 2 things the same and are very deliberately stoking the fire to build "the agreeable" society to beat down the "not very nice" rest. A very deliberate ploy of people manipulation and whilst we are much more humane than Turkey and it is all done through the power of protest and freedom of speech and "debate" it is very much the same thing.

If you ask most voters in Cornwall why they voted Brexit they will talk of fishing industry as will a lot of coastal areas. Nothing to do with immigrant populations. The Tyne area and Wales are heavy industry areas that have been decimated by corporate greed and the EU rollercoaster was to them just continuing that road to ruin.

One day people in this country will actually understand that those below them should be helped and not pitied. All this current sentiment of anti-austerity is just a cover for throwing even more money at people to make up for them not being wanted in the workplace anymore. Far too many generalisations but it is clear from being on the internet that there are vast swathes of people across the world that buy up the polished establishment sales pitch without ever questioning what is actually behind that supposed "force for good."

Charity and fighting for rights is big business in this country and people are so ready to just buy up the "This is how things should be" mantra of world elites because the message is honourable but behind it all is a big money machine that has no honour in it at all. $$$

 

Yes, some of the interviews I heard from the west country were quite disturbing (and maybe selective?) I thought. But do note, though a driving force for many, not all who agree with leaving the EU have major concerns about immigration. Like me.

I am increasingly concerned with how simplistic much of the media reporting has become. Impsaint is right that even the BBC are disingenuous in how stuff is portrayed, the Today programme had good examples this very morning. So my off tangent point is can we get rid of Thought For The Day as a vehicle for blatant propaganda?

 

The BBC and a large portion of society is quite happy to divert the argument away to a "this is disgusting" view on all side because it stop people from asking why all the options are unsuitable. While everyone is diverted to demonising Clinton or Trump.........or Farage or the Tories or the Blairites no-one is asking the real question which is "How have we got to the stage where all options are unsuitable."

That is because a growing portion of society the western world over have trundled through the last 2 decades asking why, hearing something they don't like and then saying "it can't be so because everything is so peachy........ooh but we do spare a thought for the needy."

Until this issue is addressed we are going to see vastly increasing numbers on the extremes that actually talk about dealing with the issues even though they will be unable to deliver on their promises and their motives are questionable to say the least.

This country just had a huge wake up call in the Brexit vote but a few weeks gone and some tough talk on "Brexit means Brexit" we can already see it is "business as usual" just with different parameters to work within but it is still a mass societal acceptance whether society realises it or not of globalisation = good.

It is another of the establishment's favourite diversions to lump in anything to do with the world as "globalisation" when it isn't about globalisation at all. It is corporatisation and everyone is giving their vote for it whether they realise it or not.

Constantly buying up this "globalisation" as being just how the world is moving and not realising that it is purely for the "haves" is meaning that people that are only just above the "have nots" are fully signed up members too because they are getting by quite nicely in comparison, no matter how many times the Beeb wants to say that this generation is poorer than the last when you don't even need to work these days to have a life that our parents couldn't provide.

All diversions to stop people questioning the status quo because it might "destabilise" financial matters. It needs destabilising because this is all just theoretical money passing through the hands of a select few to make their "pots" bigger. At the end of the day the money comes back round again.

The difference with corporatisation (not globalisation which is a made up cover term) is that the money that people pay in taxes is siphoned off to bump up the rich's profits under some pretence by all parties (including Corbyn's lot) that it is paid in for the benefit of all.

You pay tax which would have used to pay real people to police or provide care and then instead of being spent on what you pay for it is tendered out to companies that pay less than the state would have paid and then the differences goes into the elite's coffers away from the "people's pot."

The whole establishment including government is at it. They are all so in favour if immigration so that they can reduce labour costs in every sector of the country to maximise profits siphoned out of the public purse. Then they have the cheek to say that British people won't work. When governments of all colours tender out care or policing or prisons or....... they are utilising tendering it out to reduce costs. Those being that these private companies are paying less than it cost before and therefore yes you are needing migrant workers to provide care because qualified or even unqualified nurses are going to work on the tills at Tesco because they are paying more per hour for less "taxing" work than these companies pay their migrant "careworkers." Many of whom are not qualified and learn on the job from day 1 more often than not without any relevant experience.

Far from this country spending more than it is taking in it should be questioned why? The answer is because we are borrowing our own money that has filtered out of the public purse into the "global corporate" sector and we are borrowing it back to then siphen more back to them.

Market competitiveness is these days a charade in these huge $$$ corporations. It is a very real deal for those who are trying to make a few quid and having to drop their costs and profit expectations but corporations don't drop their own profit margin expectations. They reduce labour costs.

And I'm a Tory, lol even harbouring thoughts that maybe big government needs to return with intense regulation to weed out the money siphering.

This is why so many people in the western world are voting for the extremes. purely because those anywhere near the centre are all the same just arguing about how little the bit they give to the bottom should be without ever questioning the whole system because they are all part of that system.

I don't think anyone believes a lot of what Trump says and Farage is way more sensible than Trump and I daresay far less discriminatory but people are purely voting for someone who is say "I am going to take the system on." They are people that are not part of the cosy internal setup and shout from the rooftops "Vote for me and I will shake this lot up."

 

And whilst the public is being distracted by Tresemme , Boris, Trump and various atrocities, little things like this are going largely unnoticed.
More cronyism in the government, shock horror.

http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/fury-files-mark-thatchers-corrupt-8460468

 

Exactly. This is not something that has only just built up. We have gone from a hundred years ago in a similar postiion to where we have returned having had a brief fleeting moment of relative parity in the middle. Just these days with social media and people so wired into the "matrix" people are so easily "manouevred" by people with power into being the protectors of a way of life that most people don't really know nor can comprehend yet feel "obliged" to follow because everything everywhere says it is normal and the only acceptable way.

 

Trump is less anti-immigrant than he is lazy. He hasn't bothered to learn any of the issues.

So he comes up with simple solutions like "Ban the muslims" or "Build a giant wall." If you were to press him on the issue, he would probably allow as how you probably couldn't ban ALL the muslims, so someone has to come up with a better policy that makes everyone happy. It's just that the person won't be him.

Trump just wants to be President. And that's it. He's not particularly interested in the duties of the President, or in national policy. He just thinks he's an awesome leader and so he can do anything. His administration is going to be The Apprentice. I'm not joking.

He plans on hiring some underlings to figure out how to go about stuff and if it turns out it's unconstitutional, or not cost-effective, then hey-- come up with a workable alternative or you get fired. I suspect there are going to be a lot of firings under a Trump administration.

This might not have been so bad-- I mean when Bush was in office, it was Cheney was really running things. This would just be a more extreme version.

Problem is that Trump has alienated himself from so many that no sane person wants to work with him. And the GOP is running very short on sane people anyway. So it's going to be this crazy committee of extreme right and/or incompetent and/or crazy.