Off Topic Politics Thread

[Number 1 Jasper]

Sad thing about Corbyn , I am a Labour voter , but I joined the party because I fully believed in him . Sad to say , I will hold the exit door open for him , and I don't think I'm alone . .

As I have said , he has principles , but a leader he is not .

I have now e-mailed the Party & left a voice mail with my local rep advising of the above as well .

 

[Whiteley Saint]

This is politics. politician is a job. Corbyn is in his party to stand for his views. The vast majority of politicians these days are in politics because of the job. They switch sides to further their own careers. Look at Ahmed Sheik in the SNP. She failed to get elected as a conservative and now she is an MP for the SNP!!!

Don't believe any politician when they warble on about "I came into politics to help people or to change things." The vast majority that are in there at the moment came into politics to further their own careers and they will support whatever will further them and then spin it in a favourable light.

Corbyn is doing what is actually best for the Labour party grassroots. He is trying to make sure that the working class minority of the PLP retains the brand name "Labour Party" and that the centrist Blairite faction have to split off without the brand name.

It is quite the opposite of what is happening in the Tory party. The Tory party are ousting the centrists to return to what Conservatives represent. The Labour centrists are trying to oust the real Labour MPs to make it even more Blairite.

Non Blairites like the Eagles are jumping ship to try and keep the 2 sides from splitting but the reality is that Labour are doomed with or without Corbyn if they do not change policies back to fighting for the working class and that will not happen with a majority of Blairites in the party.

Corbyn is toast either way and he knows it but he is just trying to hold the brand name.

Like I say. Politics is my favourite sport.

If you're right then I feel sorry for Labour supporters.

 

[ImpSaint]

If you're right then I feel sorry for Labour supporters.

Are they the media's "Labour supporters" or traditional Labour vote?

The media and the labour party are very quick to say that Labour supporters overwhemingly voted remain 66%. Then they go on about Corbyn's failure to mobilise the traditional Labour vote for remain. They are not one and the same. Labour supporters are the ones that voted Labour last time. The traditional labour heartland vote voted overwhelmingly for leave and UKIP at the last election. Corbyn could not have changed that no matter how visible he was.

This is why this left / right insistence in the media and by the establishment is no longer valid. UKIP are much further right than the Conservatives. They are even further right than Thatcher's governments. However traditional Labour voters will vote for them. Traditional Labour voters will never vote Conservative. Not ever. They would not vote instead. This Left / Right stuff is gone and not applicable to modern politics.

 

[ImpSaint]

One thing that still amazes me is this clamour over Farage's poster (which was atrocious) whereas the remain poster portraying a skinhead yobbo on one side and an ethnic minority on the other seems to have got away scot free. They were both inflammatory, incendiary and should have both been pulled up.

You must log in or register to see images

 

[fatletiss]

One thing that still amazes me is this clamour over Farage's poster (which was atrocious) whereas the remain poster portraying a skinhead yobbo on one side and an ethnic minority on the other seems to have got away scot free. They were both inflammatory, incendiary and should have both been pulled up.

You must log in or register to see images

Jeez. I never saw that. Awful.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

One thing that still amazes me is this clamour over Farage's poster (which was atrocious) whereas the remain poster portraying a skinhead yobbo on one side and an ethnic minority on the other seems to have got away scot free. They were both inflammatory, incendiary and should have both been pulled up.

You must log in or register to see images

It wasn't a remain poster it was operation black vote trying to get people just to vote. It did get critised.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eration-black-vote-referendum-poster-divisive

 

[ImpSaint]

It wasn't a remain poster it was operation black vote trying to get people just to vote. It did get critised.
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...eration-black-vote-referendum-poster-divisive

I know it got criticised at the time but it seems to have been forgotten now whereas they are still mentioning the UKIP poster in every segment or article they do.

I know it wasn't by VoteRemain but the other poster was UKIP and not VoteLeave.

If they (all the media) are going to continue to utilised that UKIP poster in all of their articles and news segments then they have to talk about several posters from both sides of the argument and from several differing bodies on each side.

 

[Whiteley Saint]

I know it got criticised at the time but it seems to have been forgotten now whereas they are still mentioning the UKIP poster in every segment or article they do.

I know it wasn't by VoteRemain but the other poster was UKIP and not VoteLeave.

If they (all the media) are going to continue to utilised that UKIP poster in all of their articles and news segments then they have to talk about several posters from both sides of the argument and from several differing bodies on each side.

Yes but if you read the link It wasn't aimed at either side it was just to get people to vote either way so you can't say it's the remain version of the UKIP poster.

 

[ImpSaint]

Yes but if you read the link It wasn't aimed at either side it was just to get people to vote either way so you can't say it's the remain version of the UKIP poster.

The explanation is about as valid as UKIPs explanation. To cover over what will be the obvious perceived insinuation of each poster is quite typical of the extreme left / right but what happens is that it is because of who the "owner" of the poster is.

If they had done something like a queue outside of a polling station with a mixture of ethnicities and backgrounds then that would be fine. Even with this poster if the skinhead and the Asian lady were similarly passively sitting at each end of the see saw it would have been fine. But to have the yob aggressive pointing and visibly directing his anger at the Asian lady while she is very obviously portrayed as just sitting there having done nothing wrong is the problem.

Trying to point out that they aren't saying which way each will vote is not good enough because it is obvious which way people will think the aggressive pointing "yob" will vote and suggesting a reason why he will vote that way.

They purposefully used a stereotype and then purposefully made sure that it was a white stereotype being aggressive towards a minority demographic that was undeserving of that aggression and then they hide behind words and meanings. Exactly what UKIP have done. They are equally disgusting posters and both intentionally suggesting the exact thing that they both deny they are suggesting.

When the media pull up Farage's poster on TV they should be pulling up all the posters as a whole showing a collage of several from each side rather than one is OK because it is from BlackVote so it is OK but because the other is from UKIP it is not. They should tackle dodgy distasteful posters as the subject matter because by focusing always on partys like UKIP in this way it just strengthens their "victim" approach to garnering support.

 

[St.Jerome]

One thing that still amazes me is this clamour over Farage's poster (which was atrocious) whereas the remain poster portraying a skinhead yobbo on one side and an ethnic minority on the other seems to have got away scot free. They were both inflammatory, incendiary and should have both been pulled up.

You must log in or register to see images

Whilst it is a disgraceful image considering what's happened since the referendum it seems quite prescient.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36634786

 

[ImpSaint]

Whilst it is a disgraceful image considering what's happened since the referendum it seems quite prescient.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36634786

I agree but the intent was there no matter how words are used try and portray it as something else.

Racism and any other form of discrimination should be tackled head on and posters like this and UKIPs "breaking point" one do nothing other than stoke up hatred.

BBC are quite sensible with their sentence:

It is unclear whether the referendum result has brought about a rise in hostility, or if it is just a case of the sentiment being highlighted more since Friday.

however they always put these things way down. The BBC has a habit of doing this even in normal news programmes. They should have put their headline, then this caveat and then the pictures but instead portray it as something new and hide the caveat in the detail lower down after they have made their story.



They will say something like "UKIP are a racist party........says An other" rather than "An other says UKIP are racist".

Might sound the same but it is intentionally phrased in that order to present the statement as fact before providing the caveat afterwards.

They always put an intentional pause inbetween the statement and the context to emphasise the statement.

"The word will end in 2017...that is what one scientist from xxx says" rather than "one scientist from xxx says the world will end in 2017"

"Leaving the EU will cost each household £4,300 per year.......that is what George Osborne said today" rather than "George Osborne said today that leaving the EU will cost each household £4,300 per year."


It is a tactic to present statements as sounding like facts. A sensationlist headline just like all the red tops that they constantly sneer at.

 

[TheSecondStain]

Whilst it is a disgraceful image considering what's happened since the referendum it seems quite prescient.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-36634786

It actually makes me disgusted to be British. Whilst the poster is distasteful it fairly truthfullly shows the racist undercurrent that is in Britain. The EU Leave result has given this filth an excuse to crawl out whatever hole they've been hiding in for years. The political picture has swung over to the right wing and this is the consequence.

 

[ImpSaint]

It actually makes me disgusted to be British. Whilst the poster is distasteful it fairly truthfullly shows the racist undercurrent that is in Britain. The EU Leave result has given this filth an excuse to crawl out whatever hole they've been hiding in for years. The political picture has swung over to the right wing and this is the consequence.

I agree, the scum have been flushed out from their hiding places. The acceptable fascias that they were hiding behind are not now being used and now these people can be dealt with. This scum was always there. The BNP went away but these people's attitudes did not. They hid somewhere else being restrained and now they can be dealt with. It doesn't mean that anything new is happening now. It just means they have lost that hiding place.

 

[St.Jerome]

I agree, the scum have been flushed out from their hiding places. The acceptable fascias that they were hiding behind are not now being used and now these people can be dealt with. This scum was always there. The BNP went away but these people's attitudes did not. They hid somewhere else being restrained and now they can be dealt with. It doesn't mean that anything new is happening now. It just means they have lost that hiding place.

I truly hope so as, to me, this result seems to have given those with messages of hate a sense of entitlement that what they are saying is right.

 

[ImpSaint]

I truly hope so as, to me, this result seems to have given those with messages of hate a sense of entitlement that what they are saying is right.

But organisations such as the BBC and the PC establishment have to stop the way they present this. Those guys with that banner in Newcastle will be very quick when questioned to ask why they are not allowed to say what they say on that banner. They will very quickly ask why Anjem Choudhary is allowed to march through Luton with the roads being closed for his march chanting "UK go to hell, UK police go to hell."

Choudhary's marches are are thousands of people chanting and waving their placards and banners. Whereas this Newcastle picture is a few idiot racists with a banner.

This is where PC is failing us because it is saying one minority can do this sort of thing while another minority cannot. It needs to be no-one is allowed or they all are.

And yes the racists are a minority that do not represent the majority of white British people let alone British people as a whole.

 

[ChilcoSaint]

I can never get my head around all the hatred of immigrants that exists. Do the people who blame immigration for all the ills of our country not realise that we are all descended from immigrants from one place or another? Even the Celtic people of Wales displaced older races who were here before them. Immigration is a part of the natural flow of people around the world, and has been going on since Australopithecus first went walking across the savannah.

 

[Puck]

Two good things have quietly happened today:

1. The 1922 Committee have proposed a slightly-quicker-than-expected timetable for the Conservative leadership campaign. The sooner we get a new Prime Minister and start to remove the uncertainty around our current position the better. Well done them.
2. Two different styles of financial expert - Sir Mervyn King and Martin Lewis - have told people there is currently no reason to panic about the economy. Lewis says panic will only make things worse and King has said that, while there will be uncertainty and difficulties in the short term, in the long term his best guess is that the EU decision will make little difference to our economy.

Now we need our politicians and media to turn aside from their navel-gazing and leadership elections for a moment, make some effort to reassure the people and the markets on our finances and make it clear to everyone that this was a vote to leave the EU, not a vote for racism or isolation.

 

[Saints_Alive]

I can never get my head around all the hatred of immigrants that exists. Do the people who blame immigration for all the ills of our country not realise that we are all descended from immigrants from one place or another? Even the Celtic people of Wales displaced older races who were here before them. Immigration is a part of the natural flow of people around the world, and has been going on since Australopithecus first went walking across the savannah.

Spot on Chilcs, I'm currently revisting The Ascent of Man after a discussion with Breconsaint the other day. I wonder just how many people that live here understand just how many UK ex-pats there are abroad, enjoying the hospitality of the country they have chosen to make their home in?

 

[ImpSaint]

I can never get my head around all the hatred of immigrants that exists. Do the people who blame immigration for all the ills of our country not realise that we are all descended from immigrants from one place or another? Even the Celtic people of Wales displaced older races who were here before them. Immigration is a part of the natural flow of people around the world, and has been going on since Australopithecus first went walking across the savannah.

Most of the hatred isn't towards immigrants is to do with immigration which are 2 entirely different things however much they ay seem the same.

Immigrants are people. Immigration is something that happens. People who are against immigration aren't necessarily racist or bigoted. People who are against immigrants most definitely are. That is why it is very important to understand what people are trying to say rather than just take their words at face value because of the vocabulary they use.

People who used to do a job and were replaced by (im)migrants may talk about immigrants this and immigrants that but in most cases they don't mean immigrants, they mean immigration. They have lost their jobs without doing anything wrong. They just have a limited vocabulary. Then there are organisations that prey on this and present themselves as understanding that they are talking about the process while using them to fight their anti immigrant bigot mantra with an acceptable voice.

 

[Saints_Alive]

Most of the hatred isn't towards immigrants is to do with immigration which are 2 entirely different things however much they ay seem the same.

Immigrants are people. Immigration is something that happens. People who are against immigration aren't necessarily racist or bigoted. People who are against immigrants most definitely are. That is why it is very important to understand what people are trying to say rather than just take their words at face value because of the vocabulary they use.

People who used to do a job and were replaced by (im)migrants may talk about immigrants this and immigrants that but in most cases they don't mean immigrants, they mean immigration. They have lost their jobs without doing anything wrong. They just have a limited vocabulary. Then there are organisations that prey on this and present themselves as understanding that they are talking about the process while using them to fight their anti immigrant bigot mantra with an acceptable voice.

I have met many bigoted and quite frankly ignorant people in my lifetime, I tend not to get into a lengthy discussion with them about immigration because I know that I would end up losing my cool with them and I wouldn't be able to change their entrenched prejudices anyway.