Off Topic Politics Thread

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Beddytare said:
The French are angry that we dare go against their wishes. Are they so disinterested that they would see the tunnel blown up by terrorists just because we dare to disagree? Statements like that are one of the reasons people voted to leave. Mind you perhaps it helps them to take their peoples mind off all the things that are going on in that country at the moment. Same Ol' cliche.......blame the Brits.
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"The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow – with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon alone."

Rudyard Kipling 'Norman and Saxon'
 
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Osvaldorama said:
- Border control relocated to England
- Economically worst off country
- More expensive holidays
- Freedom of Labour / Movement likely unaffected
- Unelected PM to take a seat

Why did people vote leave again?
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So every thing that you don't like is going to be vote leaves fault eh?
 
Beddytare said:
Very true.........but on this then you think the French are correct? Just because someone thinks they will carry out their threat does not make it right, I'm sure you will agree.
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Not sure what you mean by the second point, but the French have been using their resources (and possibly EU resources) to deal with the situation in Calais to assist a EU partner (the UK). Why should they continue to do that? I hope they do, but understand their stance. Of all EU nations, the French do things for themselves more than any other, so I'm not at all surprised.


Forget the rights and wrongs, what really pisses me off about all this, is the lack of a plan. We have known that a referendum was on the table for a long time, so why has no plan being considered. It is what I haven't liked about this whole referendum. I was asked to vote on something that I could only see one side of. It has been amateurishness and embarrassing. It would not have been difficult to lay out plans for say 10 key topics. Immigration should have been one of those topics as it was so high profile in the Leave campaign.

What I am expecting to hear now as a citizen of this country, is one of the key Leave leaders to step forward today and tell us that they expected this stance from the French and what the plan they have in a drawer is to deal with this key topic. It is what they wanted and so they must have a plan.

If they don't, then it underlines the fact this has all been a game for them. A game played with real lives and our futures.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
- Border control relocated to England
- Economically worst off country
- More expensive holidays
- Freedom of Labour / Movement likely unaffected
- Unelected PM to take a seat

Why did people vote leave again?
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Hey, this question will be asked for years to come and will end up going round and round in circles.

On the day people voted for what they thought would be the best outcome for them. Scaremongering won over economic experts. Should we have had a referendum over such an important decision, maybe no. Whilst we should all be able to have a say, we should not have had so many inaccurate statements, some of which are already being retracted by the brexit campaign.

Time will tell on this one and I'm no expert and my views are no more important than anyone else. But now more than ever we need a UNITED Kingdom and its a shame that at the moment, with all the in party fighting and proposals from Scotland and Ireland, we are far from looking united.
 
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Beddytare said:
So every thing that you don't like is going to be vote leaves fault eh?
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You keep saying that Beddytare and what else do you expect? These are things that were put on the agenda all through the campaign, so I'll be expecting them to happen and yes, I'll be blaming Brexit for them now happening. I'd also be expecting the Brexit leaders to tell us how we'll be dealing with them. If not, then they are the charletons I thought they were.

Third day after the vote. No plans.
 
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St.Jerome said:
"The Saxon is not like us Normans. His manners are not so polite.
But he never means anything serious till he talks about justice and right.
When he stands like an ox in the furrow – with his sullen set eyes on your own,
And grumbles, 'This isn't fair dealing,' my son, leave the Saxon alone."

Rudyard Kipling 'Norman and Saxon'
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Those of us with a portion of Celtic blood would agree with that too!
 
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Beddytare said:
Very true.........but on this then you think the French are correct? Just because someone thinks they will carry out their threat does not make it right, I'm sure you will agree.
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My view and your view is irrelevant now. Prior to our leaving we had political capital to arrange something very much to our benefit. At the time the agreement was made I was pretty astounded when the French set up a border crossing on their side of the channel for what appeared to me to be of no benefit to them whatsoever (I may have been missing a major benefit for the French but I couldn't see one). We've thrown away the political capital that allowed it. I genuinely never saw why we should not deal with immigrants on our side of the channel.

No, I'm not saying it to be obtuse or to prove a point; I've always been amazed that we haven't had a huge shanty town in Folkestone rather than Calais.

Reverse the situation and see how you'd feel about us keeping people out of France on British soil then tell me they are doing something that isn't "correct".

Vin
 
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Beddytare said:
So every thing that you don't like is going to be vote leaves fault eh?
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No, but these things are happening and were pretty much all dismissed scornfully by the Leave campaign as "Scaremongering" or "Project fear".

When they DO happen, do you seriously expect people to say "oh well, anyone can make a mistake, it's not anyone's fault"?

By all means support Leave but as I've said previously, Leave supporters can't make this go away by sticking their fingers in their ears, shouting "lalalalala" and insisting (against the facts) that this isn't related to a Leave vote.

Vin
 
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Fats, Osvaldo, in many ways I agree with you about the lack of a plan from either side. No one has denied there is a price to pay in the short term. Because of the guesswork we have all had to make a decision based on very little information, a lot of mis information and a lot of down right lies. I accept that is my opinion. Who will be proved right in the years to come? None of us no for sure... I guess I look at it from an old fashioned idea that I believe the UK will turn things around and be better. I believe my children, their children, and my great grand kids will be better off without the interference from across the water. You see things differently fair enough but it isn't going help the situation for us to keep disagreeing on every point good or bad that happens. We all have accept the country has made its decision. Incidentally I would still be saying the same thing if the vote went the tother way.
 
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AberdeenSaint said:
The oil price has always fluctuated - it was down to around $30 a few months ago. It`s back up to around $50 now, and forecasts have it up to $75 next year. Oil revenue would only make up a small %age of Scotlands total anyway. Not sure tbh about the Euro. The Scottish government wouldn`t necessarily have to use the Euro - we could stick with the pound.
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Hi Aberdeen, fair point. Not sure you will be able to keep sterling though as we will be outside the EEA. It won't disrupt my holidays up there though!
 
Beddytare said:
Fats, Osvaldo, in many ways I agree with you about the lack of a plan from either side. No one has denied there is a price to pay in the short term. Because of the guesswork we have all had to make a decision based on very little information, a lot of mis information and a lot of down right lies. I accept that is my opinion. Who will be proved right in the years to come? None of us no for sure... I guess I look at it from an old fashioned idea that I believe the UK will turn things around and be better. I believe my children, their children, and my great grand kids will be better off without the interference from across the water. You see things differently fair enough but it isn't going help the situation for us to keep disagreeing on every point good or bad that happens. We all have accept the country has made its decision. Incidentally I would still be saying the same thing if the vote went the tother way.
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Beddytare, then why are you continually having a go about us "blaming Brexit" at every opportunity? You can't expect those of us (nearly half the voters) to wake up the next day, pat the winners on the back and say, "Well done, right lets get on with it"

Today's discussion isn't about different views, the vote is over it's because you kept saying "oh that's right, blame everything on Brexit"

I can't change my mind overnight; my name is not Boris Johnson!
 
Oh dear I seem to be upsetting a few because I have a different view point. That is not my intention........ I am not going to try and justify why I voted to leave. Just as I am not going to argue the point on this thread anymore. Moaning about a decision made by the majority of the country no matter how small is getting us nowhere.
I am sorry if I upset some people.......
 
Beddytare said:
Oh dear I seem to be upsetting a few because I have a different view point. That is not my intention........ I am not going to try and justify why I voted to leave. Just as I am not going to argue the point on this thread anymore. Moaning about a decision made by the majority of the country no matter how small is getting us nowhere.
I am sorry if I upset some people.......
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Beddy, your first sentence is appalling and I'd like you to remove it. To me that is patronising and appalling. You are not upsetting me because you have a different view point, it is your school boy tactic of throwing "oh blame everything on Brexit" and now you add insult to injury by getting your brush out and sweeping it all under "because I have a different view point" I haven't asked anyone to justify why they voted.

I'm sick of that argument. It is not because of that. I am happy to have discussions with people of a different view point but if they don't have an answer to the questions raised or a sensible response, best thrumming respond rather than just throw stones.

You know how much I respect you as a person, having met you, but please don't insult my intelligence by telling me I am
upset just because your view is different.
 
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