This is true, but people are so angry with Starmer they just won't vote Labour.
Off Topic Politics Thread
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I get it, but don’t agree with it. The GE is something we have a limited influence on and it doesn’t affect your day to day as much as local elections IMO. These are the people in charge of your local area and amenities.
The problem there may not be another GE for 3 years. People are angry now and want to make a national statement. I don't agree with it either.
I’m not a Labour or Starmer’s biggest fan, but I sympathise with them slightly.
They’ve been dealt a **** hand with the tories leaving a mess and Trump causing massive worldly issues which have a knock on effect. I don’t know if anyone could make a good situation out of it currently.
They’ve been dealt a **** hand with the tories leaving a mess and Trump causing massive worldly issues which have a knock on effect. I don’t know if anyone could make a good situation out of it currently.
Two decades of stagnation across the Western World is being capitalised on, unfortunately the Parties being chosen as the battering ram to end the previous status quo are even worse than the Parties they are replacing and the deterioration in our living standards and our society will accelerate rapidly.
Hard not to feel a sense of doom about the future honestly.
I've looked at the list of Labour MP's and there isn't a single obvious alternative in the list, nearest is Ed Milliband and he would be as popular as a fart in a bathyscaphe!
Add to that list the opposition front bench and other party MPs and there's not one that is in any way qualified to lead. Look at the odds Andy Burnham at 11/4 then Rayner 7/2, Streeting 7/1 followed by Miliband and Farage at 12/1. This government will run full term. It'll be a different playing field come the next election.
There are quite a few posts on this threads questioning why local elections are run along the lines of representing the national parties . This was exactly what my Mum used to argue and i think this was also alluded to by a guest on Evan Davies this evening. She always voted for who she believed was doing the best job.
I think there is a lot of sense in this argument. Local politicians should campaign on local issues.
I think there is a lot of sense in this argument. Local politicians should campaign on local issues.
I'm not surprised by this. I haven't followed him in much detail but from what I've seen I think he's objectively an excellent constituency MP. Donates his entire MP's salary to a local charity every month and locals seem to say he's very active when it comes to helping them with problems they bring to him.
On the whole local vs national issues in council elections, they've always been a reflection of national issues and I don't think local councillors are actually that important. They can certainly **** things up, and local authorities are inevitably where newer or smaller parties like Reform and the Greens are most likely to choose people who can't do the job, but their hands are tied in so many ways (something like 85% of local authority spending is dictated by national legislation) they can't really improve things beyond a certain point.
I know a lot of people who work in or for local authorities and I've been told by several of them that where Reform got elected last year it's made very little difference. Almost none of the councils' policies have changed significantly - the council officers just rewrite their reports to emphasise different benefits and/or have had to do things like replacing the words "climate change" with alternatives like "variations in weather".
Puck
I really agree with this.
The proposed Reform candidate for the Mayor of London was interviewed on Radio 4 tonight and she seemed keen to stress just how much Reform led councils will change things. She made a barbed comment about London councils providing sanctuary for asylum-seekers whilst suggesting that councils should only serve the locals. The one good thing about Reform getting so many seats is that this is a large number of new recruits with little experience who are joining the system. I do not doubt that they will refresh things yet the lack of knowledge will be their undoing
I cannot see things reverting back to the old two-party system and nor do I envisage the Liberals being the "safe pair of hands in the centre." A lot has been made of the demise of the Conservatives and Labour yet the Liberals have suffered too. I think the future will be a three-way split between Labour, Reform and The Greens, the latter being of appeal to many of the younger generation. The Conservatives and the Liberals are finished as Reform and the Greens have effectively taken their place. Labour can salvage themselves , I feel. Up in Scotland, it is good to see the SNP regain control. Shame that the patriarchy has returned to front the British political parties with the exception of the Conservatives who are in a doom spiral.
The General Election political debates will be fascinating next time. I can see both the Liberals and Conservatives being excluded from the three-way debates,
There has not been much
It is too early to.write off the Conservatives. The serious financial backers will back them. What is holding them back is their Reform-like policies and weak leadership which is full of soundbites and nothing else. Perhaps if they rebooted Keynesian/MacMillan type policies and pinched Starmer's clothing on dealings with the EU in a more radical manner, they would soon be taken seriously in places like St Albans, Chelsea and Kensington, Putney, Winchester- vanguard places for a forward looking Conservative party, which would then increase their support elaewhere.
Ides
I think that the results from yesterday will precipitate matters. I can see Badenoch facing a leadership challenge and more defections to Reform. Reform will out-gun every other party with political donations and I also think that the Conservatives will lose donors to them too.
I can see a very different situation, unfortunately , in the next General Election. It will be a three horse race between Labour, the Greens and Reform. You will cease to hear much comment by either the Conservatives or the Liberals in the run up and they will both be excluded from the main, media debates. It feels really dire for the Conservatives and I just cannot see them bouncing back. I would never be surprised if there are calls for the Conservatives to stop fielding candidates against Reform or that there will be sufficient defections to undermine Badenoch as Leader of the Opposition. I think that the Tories are in their death throes and they are not coming back from this. A move to the Centre of politics would be even more disastrous for them in the polls although I agree that this seems the sensible option. As discussed on Radio 4 last night, Centralist parties are perceived by the public to be part of the problem.
The next few years gives Reform the chance to completely mess up the running of local authorities and there will be more than a few rotten eggs. However, I don't think that this will have much bearing on the voting public. The voters will remain faithful to Reform until they enter government and we have a situation with is effectively Liz Truss #2.
Thank you for your response Ian. What was the turnout? It seems that Reform got its supporters out whereas the silent Tory ones stayed home and are more likely to turn out in the GE. I just beg to differ and for the life of Riley, cannot envisage Farage anywhere near becoming PM. I think you are correct with Labour losing support to the Greens mainly, and SNP and PC in Scotland and Wales respectively. As for donors, Reform as you have said have managed to recruit some big names, but never write off the Tories. They just need to develop.policies that will appeal to the wider core of the electorate, that are realistic rather than populist.
I think you're wrong in writing off the Lib Dems in the next GE and don't believe they and the Tories will be excluded from debate. They benefited from tactical voting last time round and may well do again. I expect the current mob to stay in power for the full term unless something unforeseen happens. The next election must be called by August 2029, there's a lot of water to pass under Westminster bridge by then, it's said a week is along time in politics lets see what three years will bring
Personally I can't stand the overbearing gloating of the gatemouthed gobshite and his band of tory defectors and their divisive policies.
I'm no expert, but I think the 2 party system is done. They are fighting over the same ground with no real change whether it is left or right of centre. No one seems happy with this and it all seems based on spin and culture wars. This is probably why the right Tories are going to reform and the left left to the Greens. I'd like to see PR and coalitions. Make people's vote count and you'll have to work together.
On the local issue, I'm glad the Libs have still got overall control of T.Wells borough. They certainly do excellent work in my area and we all know it.
On the local issue, I'm glad the Libs have still got overall control of T.Wells borough. They certainly do excellent work in my area and we all know it.
It was always going to be a bad result for Labour. they inherited a 14 year mess, which they have had to do unpopular things in their endeavour to rectify things and haven't really succeeded in any of it. Starmer has not been a good leader, he seems to have his priorities wrong and has been poorly advised,
The real issue is why the Tory Party has failed to make any inroads, perhaps they need a new leader also?
The Liberals seem to do well at local level but don't have much clout when comes to General Elections.
I see Reform as a collection of misfits and outcasts, which could do some real damage to Country if they are allowed to make inroads, be careful of what you wish for.
The Greens seem to be too one directional, but could be useful in coalitions!
Just my opinion on it.
The real issue is why the Tory Party has failed to make any inroads, perhaps they need a new leader also?
The Liberals seem to do well at local level but don't have much clout when comes to General Elections.
I see Reform as a collection of misfits and outcasts, which could do some real damage to Country if they are allowed to make inroads, be careful of what you wish for.
The Greens seem to be too one directional, but could be useful in coalitions!
Just my opinion on it.
Nigel Farage says a £5 million undeclared gift from crypto billionaire Christopher Harborne was an “unconditional, non-political, personal gift.” That’s a similar argument to the one Peter Mandelson made about an undeclared £373,000 house loan - and it cost him his cabinet job.
If someone gifts you £5 million, that’s an interest.
If someone gifts you £5 million, that’s an interest.
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Watch Page 94, the Private Eye podcast: https://youtu.be/dKRLlzAFgsoThe Tories need not only a new leader but a fresh set of policies and ideas that are far more inclusive and appealing to the electorate as a whole than the narrow remit of Badenoch. She really makes Ted Heath look progressive socially, economically and environmentally.
