Off Topic Politics Thread

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tomw24 said:
No they don't actually based on the bar that's been set for other teams.
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I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
 
StJabbo1 said:
I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
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Alright I heard you the first time! <laugh>
 
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StJabbo1 said:
I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
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So are we saying that they should be banned because of their hooligan element, or because they're Israeli or Jewish?

Because it now sounds like you're suggesting the former (which would be morally correct), but in which case, why were Young Boys allowed to play Villa? Why are Atletico allowed, despite Nazi salutes and monkey noises?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c75vz7lgr76o
 
Le Tissier's Laces said:
So are we saying that they should be banned because of their hooligan element, or because they're Israeli or Jewish?

Because it now sounds like you're suggesting the former (which would be morally correct), but in which case, why were Young Boys allowed to play Villa? Why are Atletico allowed, despite Nazi salutes and monkey noises?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/football/articles/c75vz7lgr76o
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They should have been banned given their history as have a number of clubs in the past. Below Dutch teams as an eg there are others.
2022 Feyenoord has been banned from taking fans to the club’s first away game in the next round of the Europa league, following disturbances at two matches in the group stages.
2024 PSV Eindhoven supporters have been banned from the Champions League clash at Paris St Germain by French authorities because of previous disturbances.
2025 Feyenoord fans have been banned from travelling to Lille for the club’s final Champions League group match.

Stadium restrictions imposed https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/
 
StJabbo1 said:
They should have been banned given their history as have a number of clubs in the past. Below Dutch teams as an eg there are others.
2022 Feyenoord has been banned from taking fans to the club’s first away game in the next round of the Europa league, following disturbances at two matches in the group stages.
2024 PSV Eindhoven supporters have been banned from the Champions League clash at Paris St Germain by French authorities because of previous disturbances.
2025 Feyenoord fans have been banned from travelling to Lille for the club’s final Champions League group match.

Stadium restrictions imposed https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/
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Yeah but most of the time it's UEFA punishing clubs rather than fans banned on safety grounds.
 
I think ye are all failing to mention the elephant in the room on what that country was/is doing to the people of Gaza at that time. Of course it's going to have an effect on safety from all parties. Switzerland/Holland or whoever weren't doing what the Israeli government doing and at the time of the match the massacre was at its most bloody...It was an extraordinary situation. Still can't understand people's outrage. Would there be the same outrage if Russian teams were allowed into European football but hundreds of their fans were banned from attending? Don't think so
 
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thebronze14 said:
I think ye are all failing to mention the elephant in the room on what that country was/is doing to the people of Gaza at that time. Of course it's going to have an effect on safety from all parties. Switzerland/Holland or whoever weren't doing what the Israeli government doing and at the time of the match the massacre was at its most bloody...It was an extraordinary situation. Still can't understand people's outrage. Would there be the same outrage if Russian teams were allowed into European football but hundreds of their fans were banned from attending? Don't think so
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You're not outraged that the police fabricated evidence? Or that they falsely led people to believe that Israeli hooligans were the primary reason for the ban, neglecting to publicise the intelligence of threats against them?

I find that weird tbh. In a country such as the UK with a functioning police force I think there should always be outrage at such things.

I also think it's alarming that they liaised with mosques known for anti-semitic rhetoric before any decision was made but didn't liaise with Jewish communities until afterwards.

Imagine for a second if that was the other way round. Police have intelligence that Jewish gangs are planning to attack a group of Muslims at an event and the police decided to engage with islamophobic Jews but not the Muslim community before making any decision.

It's disgraceful and breeds further hatred on all sides of the spectrum.
 
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Ultimately I think what's happened here is that many people are too scared of being called racist to say that local Muslim gangs threatened violence and instead of dealing with that the police bowed down and gave them what they want.

It doesn't make you racist to say that. It's what happened.

And to be clear that certainly doesn't mean that "muslims are taking over" or that "we've lost our streets" or any other far right nonsense that certain people with an agenda have put out there.

But it definitely shouldn't be ignored/condoned and by doing so it plays into said agenda driven people's hands and helps move us closer to Farage getting the keys to Downing Street.
 
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Libby said:
You're not outraged that the police fabricated evidence? Or that they falsely led people to believe that Israeli hooligans were the primary reason for the ban, neglecting to publicise the intelligence of threats against them?

I find that weird tbh. In a country such as the UK with a functioning police force I think there should always be outrage at such things.

I also think it's alarming that they liaised with mosques known for anti-semitic rhetoric before any decision was made but didn't liaise with Jewish communities until afterwards.

Imagine for a second if that was the other way round. Police have intelligence that Jewish gangs are planning to attack a group of Muslims at an event and the police decided to engage with islamophobic Jews but not the Muslim community before making any decision.

It's disgraceful and breeds further hatred on all sides of the spectrum.
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Oh I do agree that the whole thing was horribly handled from the top down....I think the right decision was made in the end but seemed to be done in completely the wrong manner.

Those that think they shouldn't have been banned, do ye think if it were Russian fans should they have been allowed? Just wondering what concensus would be. The topic in general has been done to death tbf so feel free to ignore if needs be!
 
thebronze14 said:
Oh I do agree that the whole thing was horribly handled from the top down....I think the right decision was made in the end but seemed to be done in completely the wrong manner.

Those that think they shouldn't have been banned, do ye think if it were Russian fans should they have been allowed? Just wondering what concensus would be. The topic in general has been done to death tbf so feel free to ignore if needs be!
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I personally wouldn't support a Russian fan ban no.

I think the west has self appointed itself as the king of morality and often we're on shaky ground ourselves.
 
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i was fortunate enough to go to watch England play in the World Cup in France in 1998 and the best thing about it was hanging out withs from France, US, Norway etc. For me, this is the whole point of following football. I do not understand why people go out to cause trouble at football.

I do not miss Russian fans who look out for foreigner to fight. Glad they are banned.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
i was fortunate enough to go to watch England play in the World Cup in France in 1998 and the best thing about it was hanging out withs from France, US, Norway etc. For me, this is the whole point of following football. I do not understand why people go out to cause trouble at football.

I do not miss Russian fans who look out for foreigner to fight. Glad they are banned.
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Might wanna take a look at your beloved Pompey Ian...
 
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StJabbo1 said:
They should have been banned given their history as have a number of clubs in the past. Below Dutch teams as an eg there are others.
2022 Feyenoord has been banned from taking fans to the club’s first away game in the next round of the Europa league, following disturbances at two matches in the group stages.
2024 PSV Eindhoven supporters have been banned from the Champions League clash at Paris St Germain by French authorities because of previous disturbances.
2025 Feyenoord fans have been banned from travelling to Lille for the club’s final Champions League group match.

Stadium restrictions imposed https://www.uefa.com/running-competitions/disciplinary/stadium-bans/
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2023 Legia Warsaw have been banned from selling tickets to their fans for five European games after the violence that marred their Europa Conference League defeat at Aston Villa.
2023 West Ham fans have been banned from attending the club's next European away match after objects were thrown from the stands at their Europa Conference League final win over Fiorentina.
2025 Young Boys supporters have been banned from their next Europa League away game after crowd trouble during November's tie against Aston Villa

These are all UEFA bans who should have acted given Maccabi TA history of hooliganism. No excuse for the WMP behaviour of course they were fools to think they could get away with it.
 
StJabbo1 said:
I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
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Didn't their local derby get abandoned last year because of fan trouble?
 
Archers Road said:
Didn't their local derby get abandoned last year because of fan trouble?
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Sunday, 24 September 2023. De Klassieker, Ajax-Feyenoord was abandoned on Sunday in the Johan Cruijff Arena after three instances of the crown throwing objects onto the pitch. Feyenoord were winning 3-0 at the time due to goals from Santiago Gimenez. The remainder of the Eredivisie match between Ajax and Feyenoord was played in an empty stadium.

Banning away fans doesn't mean there's no problems as above, matches between Ajax and Feyenoord have been played without fans of the away clubs for years due to serious disturbances in the past.

End of november last year another game was abandoned this against Groningen. This may be the one you were thinking about, not a local derby Groningen is 180 Klics away not a derby either
"The game between Ajax and FC Groningen on Sunday evening was abandoned after just six minutes, following two incidents in which Ajax fans from the F-Side section threw fireworks onto the pitch. It had been reported that the fireworks were lit in remembrance of an Ajax fan who recently passed away.

Referee Bas Nijhuis suspended the game when many fireworks were thrown onto the pitch early on. This led to a significant delay before the players came back out onto the pitch, before the Ajax fans proceeded to throw more fireworks onto the pitch when the game was about to restart. This led to Nijhuis canceling the game for the evening."
nltimes.nl

Ajax–Groningen match abandoned after fans throw fireworks onto the pitch

The game between Ajax and FC Groningen on Sunday evening was abandoned after just six minutes, following two incidents in which Ajax fans from the F-Side section threw fireworks onto the pitch. It had been reported that the fireworks were lit in remembrance of an Ajax fan who recently passed away.
nltimes.nl nltimes.nl

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Something else I came across. In 2024 PSV refused to sell their fans tickets to the away game at Ajax due to the anti-semitic chants in past matches which had result in a ban by the Amsterdam authorities in 2022.
www.psv.nl

News | PSV leaves own fans at home at away game against Ajax

To prevent offensive talking points from negatively affecting the match, PSV will take on Ajax on Nov. 2 without the support of their own supporters.
www.psv.nl www.psv.nl
combatantisemitism.org

'Enough Is Enough': Amsterdam Bans PSV Fans From Ajax Match Over Antisemitic Chants | Combat Antisemitism Movement

combatantisemitism.org combatantisemitism.org
 
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