Off Topic Politics Thread

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New PAGE 94 Podcast OUT NOW
This week: On thin ICE
Why does the USA now have masked militias roaming its streets with almost no oversight? Why do some of the people who want to win London’s next Mayoral election seem to hate the city so much? And if Prince Harry texts you to recruit you for his next lawsuit, should you answer? Ian, Helen, Adam and Andy explore these questions and more.
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Archers Road said:
They've done more good in two years than the last lot of idiots did in 14. Look at the improvements in the NHS, nationalisation of the railways, rescuing what's left of British Steel, Leaseholders and Renters rights, employees rights etc. None of this gets covered by our delightful media though.
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Add the Northern Powerhouse Rail project just announced and closer ties to the EU. No great fan of Starmer or the government but credit where credit is due.
Edit - Net migration fell to 204,000 in the year ending June 2025. This was a decline of 720,000 over the previous two years.
 
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Libby said:
As predicted the compulsory digital id won't be happening.

Good news but how many u turns is that now from this government? Hard to know what they actually stand for.
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They don’t actually stand for anything. Platitudes about making life better for ordinary working people don’t stand up to the reality of life for most people. They have made some progress in some areas, but their main problem is the complete absence of any soul. The biggest success, if that’s what you want to call it, has been completely ignored by the very people screaming for it. Net immigration has fallen by 2/3 since Labour took office but that nice Mr Farage doesn’t seem to be celebrating.
 
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Libby said:
****ing lol at the WMP using AI to gather intelligence on Israeli football fans.

It's mental how many people were willing to accept the police line that the ban was all about the Maccabi hooligans.
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Libby

I think that there was sufficient in the videos of the violence meted out in Holland to come to the conclusion that Maccabi fans not welcome. The way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one .
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
Libby

I think that there was sufficient in the videos of the violence meted out in Holland to come to the conclusion that Maccabi fans not welcome. The way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one .
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Right enough Ian. As I said before I knew people who were in Amsterdam and at the Ajax - Maccabi TA match. Three factions maybe four, two sets of fans, muslims and some right wing anti semantics all up for it.
 
Ian Thumwood said:
Libby

I think that there was sufficient in the videos of the violence meted out in Holland to come to the conclusion that Maccabi fans not welcome. The way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one .
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Do you think it's acceptable to use AI to reference a match which didn't happen, make claims about the incidents in Netherlands which their police denied, and lie about meeting Jewish community groups?

I wasn't commenting on the rights or wrongs of the decision itself, I've already made my position clear on that. My point is that everyone seemed to believe that it was all down to Maccabi fans and we now know that not to be true and that there was intelligence that local groups were planning to attack them.
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
Libby

I think that there was sufficient in the videos of the violence meted out in Holland to come to the conclusion that Maccabi fans not welcome. The way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one .
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The problem is Ian, if you're going to ban an entire set of fans from attending a game, you need to be able to justify the reasoning behind it. Using AI to include a match that never happened is an absolute disgrace and the WMP chief constable should resign on the spot. The Jewish community in Birmingham weren't even consulted FFS. Based on the report used to make the decision, the fans should have been allowed to attend.
 
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tomw24 said:
The problem is Ian, if you're going to ban an entire set of fans from attending a game, you need to be able to justify the reasoning behind it. Using AI to include a match that never happened is an absolute disgrace and the WMP chief constable should resign on the spot. The Jewish community in Birmingham weren't even consulted FFS. Based on the report used to make the decision, the fans should have been allowed to attend.
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They did consult mosques known for antisemitism beforehand though...

Basically they made a decision and then looked for evidence to fit it.
 
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tomw24 said:
The problem is Ian, if you're going to ban an entire fanbase from attending a game, you need to be able to justify the reasoning behind it. Using AI to include a match that never happened is an absolute disgrace and the WMP chief constable should resign on the spot. The Jewish community in Birmingham weren't even consulted FFS. Based on the report used to make the decision, the fans should have been allowed to attend.
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The authorities, Ajax fans and people living in the city would disagree strongly. The Maccabi TA ultras were the catalyst for the violence and won't be welcome in future. As Ian said the way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one.
 
Libby said:
They did consult mosques known for antisemitism beforehand though...

Basically they made a decision and then looked for evidence to fit it.
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If Villa were playing Roma, or Olympiacos, or Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade, this would never have happened. All those teams have had issues with football fan violence but I bet their fans would have been allowed to attend.
 
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StJabbo1 said:
The authorities, Ajax fans and people living in the city would disagree strongly. The Maccabi TA ultras were the catalyst for the violence and won't be welcome in future. As Ian said the way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one.
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How can a decision be correct based on a report full of lies and exaggerations? That's not a flawed decision. It's a biased and prejudiced one.
 
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StJabbo1 said:
The authorities, Ajax fans and people living in the city would disagree strongly. The Maccabi TA ultras were the catalyst for the violence and won't be welcome in future. As Ian said the way the decision was made might have been flawed but the decision was the correct one.
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The Dutch police do disagree strongly. With WMP's characterisation of what happened there.

Does that honestly not set off huge alarm bells?

Wasn't there pre planned violence against them there too? Sure some of the court cases brought to light WhatsApp groups with hundreds of members that had been running weeks before the game.

So it might be a tad unfair to say they were the catalysts, they were going to come under attack regardless of their poor behaviour.
 
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What makes me laugh is after AI found them this fictional match against West Ham why wouldn't they contact the Met and ask how it went? Surely that would be standard practice of sorts?

There's only reason why.
 
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tomw24 said:
If Villa were playing Roma, or Olympiacos, or Galatasaray, Red Star Belgrade, this would never have happened. All those teams have had issues with football fan violence but I bet their fans would have been allowed to attend.
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Best recent example being Legia Warsaw. Caused huge issues at Leicester and (ironically) Villa in recent years but still were able to travel to Chelsea last season.
 
Libby said:
Best recent example being Legia Warsaw. Caused huge issues at Leicester and (ironically) Villa in recent years but still were able to travel to Chelsea last season.
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Yeah, there's undoubtedly countless more examples. Which makes this even worse.
 
tomw24 said:
How can a decision be correct based on a report full of lies and exaggerations? That's not a flawed decision. It's a biased and prejudiced one.
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It's correct Tom, the events in Amsterdam and elsewhere warrant the ban. This has all been debated before I can't be arsed to rinse and repeat.
 
tomw24 said:
No they don't actually based on the bar that's been set for other teams.
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I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
 
tomw24 said:
No they don't actually based on the bar that's been set for other teams.
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I'll go with the opinions of those on the ground at the time. Maccabi outdid any other visiting fans by some distance excepting perhaps other teams in the Netherlands at the height of the hooligan era. I'm sure you're aware Ajax have a similar fan base to Spurs not that that has any bearing on what happend on the streets.
 
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