Off Topic Politics Thread

[BackFromBeyond]

You're right it is historic (you're mentioning the 00's UK/US international war on terror tour), yet it isn't, as you're also seem to be glibly suggesting sniping at Israel is some 'cause du jour'. I hold you to a higher standard that this. I do have some Palestinian relatives... and blessedly I still do have Palestinian relatives. It's why I'm so jaded, yet deeply steeped in knowledge and wisdom over what's been going on for nearly a century.

The China situation isn't my field, but if it's up there with Israel's crimes - a UN Commission of Inquiry has recently concluded that Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza - then yeah, sweeping sanctions should be implemented. I'm going on international law, not vague feelings du jour.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

You're right it is historic (you're mentioning the 00's UK/US international war on terror tour), yet it isn't, as you're also sniping a 'cause du jour'. I hold you to a high standard that this. I do have some Palestinian relatives... and blessedly I still do have Palestinian relatives. It's why I'm so jaded, yet deeply steeped in knowledge and wisdom over what's been going on for nearly a century.

The China situation isn't my field, but if it's up there with Israel's crimes - a UN Commission of Inquiry has recently concluded that Israel has committed genocide against Palestinians in Gaza - then yeah, sweeping sanctions should be implemented. I'm going on international law, not vague feelings du jour.

Sorry your relatives are having to suffer this, genuinely.

The reason I slightly flippantly call it a cause-de-jour is that it's very much the middle class white thing to be protesting around, which feels insidious to me (and beautifully personified in that berk from Oxford).

Here's China - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22278037 - but for some reason those Muslims don't deserve the same protection as Palestinians? And China doesn't deserve the same opprobrium as Israel? All I'm doing is asking why that is.

For what it's worth, I don't think anybody is actively or consciously anti-semitic, but I am asking people to examine their beliefs on this, and why there's such a disparity of outrage.

 

[ImpSaint]

Sorry your relatives are having to suffer this, genuinely.

The reason I slightly flippantly call it a cause-de-jour is that it's very much the middle class white thing to be protesting around, which feels insidious to me (and beautifully personified in that berk from Oxford).

Here's China - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22278037 - but for some reason those Muslims don't deserve the same protection as Palestinians? And China doesn't deserve the same opprobrium as Israel? All I'm doing is asking why that is.

For what it's worth, I don't think anybody is actively or consciously anti-semitic, but I am asking people to examine their beliefs on this, and why there's such a disparity of outrage.

I think on that 1st paragraph you must mean on this sub? There is definitely an anti semitic portion in the real world discussion and I daresay a fair amount of those that aren't end up drawn into appearing to be so!

If you went on Labour forums you might realise the extent of this. There is a large vocal portion of Labour's activists and members, probably not a majority but very large, that want most of their MPs purged for being in the friends of Israel group! They are full on - anything to do with Israel or Jews is fair game and undeserving of being in any position in a party that they think they own! As well as trans of course but that is another matter.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I think on that 1st paragraph you must mean on this sub? There is definitely an anti semitic portion in the real world discussion and I daresay a fair amount of those that aren't end up drawn into appearing to be so!

If you went on Labour forums you might realise the extent of this. There is a large vocal portion of Labour's activists and members, probably not a majority but very large, that want most of their MPs purged for being in the friends of Israel group! They are full on - anything to do with Israel or Jews is fair game and undeserving of being in any position in a party that they think they own! As well as trans of course but that is another matter.

Oh there's certainly an insidious underbelly of anti-semitism more broadly. I meant on this forum.

 

[BackFromBeyond]

Sorry your relatives are having to suffer this, genuinely.

The reason I slightly flippantly call it a cause-de-jour is that it's very much the middle class white thing to be protesting around, which feels insidious to me (and beautifully personified in that berk from Oxford).

Here's China - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22278037 - but for some reason those Muslims don't deserve the same protection as Palestinians? And China doesn't deserve the same opprobrium as Israel? All I'm doing is asking why that is.

For what it's worth, I don't think anybody is actively or consciously anti-semitic, but I am asking people to examine their beliefs on this, and why there's such a disparity of outrage.

Thanks Laces. I'm still "very much middle class and white," so you're not wrong! My Palestinian uncle worked as a journalist.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Sorry your relatives are having to suffer this, genuinely.

The reason I slightly flippantly call it a cause-de-jour is that it's very much the middle class white thing to be protesting around, which feels insidious to me (and beautifully personified in that berk from Oxford).

Here's China - https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-china-22278037 - but for some reason those Muslims don't deserve the same protection as Palestinians? And China doesn't deserve the same opprobrium as Israel? All I'm doing is asking why that is.

For what it's worth, I don't think anybody is actively or consciously anti-semitic, but I am asking people to examine their beliefs on this, and why there's such a disparity of outrage.

I think that there is a very strong anti China feeling due to the Urghurs , etc, etc but because we do not come across Chinese teams in either football or cricket, we probably so no encounter this much. Maybe it would be more of an issue if table tennis had a higher profile in UK ?

Chinese interest in football is probably centred around betting or buying up south coast football clubs and not investing in them..

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I think that there is a very strong anti China feeling due to the Urghurs , etc, etc but because we do not come across Chinese teams in either football or cricket, we probably so no encounter this much. Maybe it would be more of an issue if table tennis had a higher profile in UK ?

Chinese interest in football is probably centred around betting or buying up south coast football clubs and not investing in them..

I don't believe for a second there'd be, or has been, any discussion about banning Chinese involvement in international sport, which is what's being touted here.

 

[StJabbo1]

If the Russian clubs are banned, as their nation are worse offenders, so should the Israeli ones. What that nation has been getting away with and continue to do so is utterly utterly insane. Its so baked in now.

Hardly surprising there is a serious problem (when they travel Europe) with Maccabi's notoriously racist elements, of course these are big occasions for them, it soooooo dull being a racist football thug in an ethno-state.

The discussion and vote on Eurovision inclusion has been postponed https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl89jp538o

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Oh there's certainly an insidious underbelly of anti-semitism more broadly. I meant on this forum.

I don't agree about antisemitism on this board. It is only something you could conclude if you only read one poster's comments. What kind of person thinks killing 67, 000 civilians isn't genocide ?

 

[Ian Thumwood]

The discussion and vote on Eurovision inclusion has been postponed https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c5yl89jp538o

If Israel can compete in this, why can't Palestine?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I don't agree about antisemitism on this board. It is only something you could conclude if you only read one poster's comments. What kind of person thinks killing 67, 000 civilians isn't genocide ?

As I said, I don't think anyone here is consciously anti-semitic. With regard to your second question, nearly a million died as the result of US led incursions into the ME. Is that a genocide too?

 

[BackFromBeyond]

As I said, I don't think anyone here is consciously anti-semitic. With regard to your second question, nearly a million died as the result of US led incursions into the ME. Is that a genocide too?

War crimes abound, but it's hard to argue it reached the bar for genocide's systematic extermination

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

War crimes abound, but it's hard to argue it reached the bar for genocide's systematic extermination

As I said, I don't really know. It's just a question of people thinking a bit.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

As I said, I don't think anyone here is consciously anti-semitic. With regard to your second question, nearly a million died as the result of US led incursions into the ME. Is that a genocide too?

Undoubtedly "Yes."

It does make me think how soon there will be a call to ban Trump’s America.

I do agree that boycotts can have an influence on things politically but maybe less so these days. Bans of Israeli cultural issues and artists have had no effect over the years.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Undoubtedly "Yes."

It does make me think how soon there will be a call to ban Trump’s America.

I do agree that boycotts can have an influence on things politically but maybe less so these days. Bans of Israeli cultural issues and artists have had no effect over the years.

Not going to be an awful lot of sport going on under your regime, Ian.

 

[ImpSaint]

Undoubtedly "Yes."

It does make me think how soon there will be a call to ban Trump’s America.

I do agree that boycotts can have an influence on things politically but maybe less so these days. Bans of Israeli cultural issues and artists have had no effect over the years.

You can't ban America because you don't like their democratically elected President. lol. He's not started any wars and is trying to stop them! Argue all you want about all the other stuff but there are actual dictators in the world who are not banned from things, in fact plenty of them and many in countries you think are shining examples of left wing politics "working!"

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Not going to be an awful lot of sport going on under your regime, Ian.

Sport and the arts are two of the things which make us different from other animals. They should be used to promote peace.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Sport and the arts are two of the things which make us different from other animals. They should be used to promote peace.

So we should welcome everyone to be involved, in order to promote unity.

Glad we have that…err…sorted?!

 

[Ian Thumwood]

You can't ban America because you don't like their democratically elected President. lol. He's not started any wars and is trying to stop them! Argue all you want about all the other stuff but there are actual dictators in the world who are not banned from things, in fact plenty of them and many in countries you think are shining examples of left wing politics "working!"

Well, the attacks against drug dealers frim Venezuela is going well ! The last boat attacked was not destroyed and it appears 2 of the crew members were from Trinidad and Tobago. American operatives are also being allowed to operate inside that country.

Just feel that all the nutters in the world feel emboldened at the moment!

The world would be so much better with Owen Jones in charge.

 

[ImpSaint]

So we should welcome everyone to be involved, in order to promote unity.

Glad we have that…err…sorted?!

Lol. we're discussing who should be banned from world sport with someone who still thinks that Venezuela is a shining beacon of what the world should aspire to!