Off Topic Politics Thread

[Number 1 Jasper]

The following quote is from the film .

The Farmers Daughter .

Made in 1947

Remind you of anyone ?

================================================

Agatha Morley: What do you want the public to believe, Mr. Finley?
Anders Finley: To believe in our type of 100% Americanism. Now, a 100% American is...
Agatha Morley: White?
Anders Finley: Right!
Agatha Morley: No foreign-born?
Anders Finley: Right!
Agatha Morley: The right kind of religion?
Anders Finley: Exactly right, Mrs. Morley.

 

[BackFromBeyond]

So Chinese clubs should be banned then? Genocidal ethno-state.

Just my opinion, and who really gives a monkey's about that, but -

Should US teams have been banned from competition after their response to 9/11 an invasion of Afghanistan?
Should UK teams have been banned from competition after we were involved in an illegal war against Iraq?

It just feels like different standards are applied because it's Israel...

Nothing has been applied to Israel. You think they're getting a raw deal? They have carte blanche. Its Russia who have been banned.

 

[Libby]

"Do you honestly believe that they've been banned due to their previous behaviour? Let's at least be honest, they're banned due to fears of the local reaction to their attendance."

Why do you honestly believe there is a contradiction here? ... that's a rhetorical question.

I don't believe local people in Birmingham have to wait to put up with racist ****, from the worst elements of a ethno-state traipsing over from a genocidal terrorist nation. Haifa hooligans have demonstrably displayed hate and intolerance across Europe already this season.

As I said, Israel should be internationally and comprehensively sanctioned, thus banned from international sports. The precedent is there with Russia.

I don't think racism from the travelling fans is what the authorities are most concerned about, but more racism and violence directed towards them from locals.

As I said last night the discussion regarding whether they should be competing (which is a reasonable point) is irrelevant in relation to this decision.

The fact is they're currently allowed to play and this decision needs to be assessed in isolation.

And the decision that's been taken is that our police are either A) incapable of protecting foreign citizens or B) unwilling to spend the money it'll take to protect them.

And that is both a disgrace and an embarrassment imo.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Neighbouring Muslim countries to Palestine don't actually much like them, but that's another of these inconvenient truths.

That's quite right. Which is why Egypt wont take them in through the Rafah Crossing, something that could be easily done. You don't see many "peace marches" urging Egypt to help the situation.

 

[Libby]

But should they be banned from International competition, like Russia? And like is being suggested Israel should be by the post I was replying to.

I'm just trying to ask people to consider their logic here, and whether or not Israel is being held to different standards to other countries. If so, why?

Israel certainly are held to a different standard. Only the other day we had Ian saying they shouldn't have responded at all to the worst terror attack in their history.

And to be clear I largely come down on the Palestinian side in the wider conflict and think how Israel have gone about things has been abhorrent.

As I said last night it's becoming clearer and clearer that there's a level of intolerance that many people in this country are happy to accept towards Jews/Israelis that simply isn't there for other minorities.

I notice there were no calls for Palestine themselves to be banned from World Cup qualifying btw.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

60,000 Palestinians in uk as of 2017. 271 thousand Jewish people as of 2021. I.e. only 4.5 times more Jewish people.

4.13 million Muslims in uk in 2024. 5.86 % of population.

 

[ImpSaint]

Just my opinion, and who really gives a monkey's about that, but -

Should US teams have been banned from competition after their response to 9/11 an invasion of Afghanistan?
Should UK teams have been banned from competition after we were involved in an illegal war against Iraq?

It just feels like different standards are applied because it's Israel...

US teams should be banned because their people democratically voted a "wrong 'un" in as their president.

 

[tomw24]

60,000 Palestinians in uk as of 2017. 271 thousand Jewish people as of 2021. I.e. only 4.5 times more Jewish people.

4.13 million Muslims in uk in 2024. 5.86 % of population.

And?

 

[ImpSaint]

How many Muslims in this country are Palestinian?

Why the hell should any non Muslim consider the local population who have no connection with Palestine other than they share the same religion? If they want to be seen as brothers of all the Muslims in Gaza, then maybe they should all be arrested for supporting a terrorist organisation.
If they want to take this war in Gaza as their war then fine, but that doesn't mean we should accommodate that belief in this country where Muslims make up 6% of the population. If they are really serious about their brother (I would say sisters as well but they don't count) Muslims then they could support them in Gaza just like the many who travelled to support ISIS.

I think the main problem will not be local muslims........It will be white folks masked up in keffiyehs

 

[Ian Thumwood]

And?

Answering the question above about number of Palestinians in UK.

 

[ImpSaint]

Is Israel held to different standards than other countries? The fact their football clubs are allowed to compete in European competitions says yes, they are; they're given special treatment because they are deemed a special case. Maybe that needs to be revisited.

This is fair, however the fact they are not banned like Russia means that a section of the UK feels they can enact their own version of lawmaking as if they are separate from the UK or global politics, all the while banging on about talking about togetherness and not dividing people! We are not the US and we do not have states or regions that make their own laws or interpret existing laws differently to other regions! or at least we shouldn't be!

 

[Libby]

Ian any answer to my Qatar question yet?

 

[Libby]

I have to think that people would see this differently if it were other groups involved.

Say there's a far right protest due to be held on the same day/in the same city as an England Pakistan cricket match. The police get intelligence that some of the protesters are planning to be disruptive and cause violence towards Pakistan fans.

Is banning Pakistanis from attending the match the right thing to do? Or should the police prepare according to the intelligence and deal with any trouble as and when it arises?

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Nothing has been applied to Israel. You think they're getting a raw deal? They have carte blanche. Its Russia who have been banned.

Not really, no. But you're suggesting they should be banned, and my question is are you holding them therefore to a different standard to the other countries I've mentioned.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Thumwood being economical with the truth, again.

It is difficult to provide an exact number, but UK census data from 2021 indicates there were
approximately 4,621 residents born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories living in England and Wales. However, the total number of people of Palestinian descent is likely higher, as this does not account for UK-born Palestinians or those born in other countries like Israel.

• Born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories: In 2021, there were 4,621 residents in England and Wales who were born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.
• Born in Israel: In the same year, 22,546 residents of England and Wales were born in Israel.
• Total population: The overall number is hard to determine because the census does not track all people of Palestinian descent, especially those born in the UK or elsewhere. Some estimates suggest a higher total, possibly around 60,000 in 2017, but this is based on estimations rather than census data.

 

[ImpSaint]

Thumwood being economical with the truth, again.

It is difficult to provide an exact number, but UK census data from 2021 indicates there were
approximately 4,621 residents born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories living in England and Wales. However, the total number of people of Palestinian descent is likely higher, as this does not account for UK-born Palestinians or those born in other countries like Israel.

• Born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories: In 2021, there were 4,621 residents in England and Wales who were born in the Occupied Palestinian Territories.
• Born in Israel: In the same year, 22,546 residents of England and Wales were born in Israel.
• Total population: The overall number is hard to determine because the census does not track all people of Palestinian descent, especially those born in the UK or elsewhere. Some estimates suggest a higher total, possibly around 60,000 in 2017, but this is based on estimations rather than census data.

Thurmwood looks like he is playing Top Trumps religions on how we should make laws and allowances. Biggest numbers wins.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

60,000 Palestinians in uk as of 2017. 271 thousand Jewish people as of 2021. I.e. only 4.5 times more Jewish people.

4.13 million Muslims in uk in 2024. 5.86 % of population.

But I thought the problem was with Israel, not "Jewish people"?

Unless you're conflating the two, which surely you wouldn't be doing...

 

[tomw24]

I'm actually thinking that the SAG are on very thin ice legally - it sounds like this is going to get taken to court if they don't change their stance and there are clearly grounds for arguing they've breached the Equality Act and they discriminating against Jewish and Israeli people.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

I think the main problem will not be local muslims........It will be white folks masked up in keffiyehs

Well yes, if that prick from Oxford is anything to go by, the keffiyeh ****ers will be out in force. I can't share your optimism about the locals though.

 

[It'sOnlyAGame]

Thurmwood looks like he is playing Top Trumps religions on how we should make laws and allowances. Biggest numbers wins.

Normally I wouldn't care about individual numbers of ethnic groups but you can see why I posed the question. If this match went ahead with Maccabi supporters allowed in, what proportion of the protesters would be Palestinian? We are accepting the Muslim belief that Islam comes first and nationality comes second. Therefore an attack on a far away Muslim country is an attack on all Muslims even here at home. Why is that belief readily accepted when integration and harmony in a multicultural society is difficult enough as it is? It's another example of the appeasement that has led us to the racial tension we are seeing in this country right now.