Off Topic Politics Thread

[Gregm1988]

On the Charlie Kirk topic - have there actually been many significant right wing political assassinations in the past 50 or 60 years?

Because a lot of the predominant ones in the Anglosphere at least are “from the left”. JFK, Bobby Kennedy, MLK, John Lennon are ones that come to mind. Albeit those are all quite a while ago

There were attempts at Reagan and Trump.

I mention this because the right wing really aren’t taking this well at all. They are absolutely unhinged in some of their responses and calls for reprisals. And maybe this is because the media environment is very different now to the much earlier examples. But I expect also an element of them being the party of the establishment. The media in the US is marching pretty much in lockstep with Trump now. Hardly any pushback. An MSNBC analyst was fired for suggesting that Kirk contributed towards to hostile environment that saw this ultimately happen. And this is supposedly the “left wing Fox News”. Whereas actual Fox News has become unglued with them (and the president himself) basically calling for war against “The Left” and “them” despite us still not knowing who did this

I just wonder how much of this is the media environment and how much is the deeply establishment right wing being completely shocked that something like this could happen to “them”. And not really knowing how to deal with it

As I write I suspect more of the former but can’t be fully sure. And have probably forgotten something notable

I just can’t help but think about something a comedian or commentator said (forgotten who) about high profile assassinations and how it’s always people who say “why don’t we all just try to be nicer to each other” and clearly someone takes exception to that clearly outrageous notion

 

[Libby]

I cause confusion by trying to give an honest reply which is 0 or 30+ depending on which week.

A folk festival in August is very different from a wet week in Feb looking after small children.

Sadly those recording the info do make assumptions so at times I've been put down as a raging alcoholic or pious potential fibber.

It would be so much better if they asked people if they are happy and comfortable about their alcohol consumption.

I suspect Sunday followed by 4 days of fun at Butlins Bognor will increase next week's total a tad.

Not sure I agree with asking people if they're happy/comfortable with their consumption is a good move to be honest.

The whole point presumably is to assess risk factors and many people might not realise their use is harmful.

 

[ImpSaint]

The press will eventually get him.

If Raynor was forced to resign , the same rules need to apply to Farage.

Raynor was forced to resign in the end because she has been one of the most vocal about "them and us" tax avoidance same as tax evasion" blah blah. Tax avoidance kills children etc, etc. She did nothing illegal. She fell on her own sword.

Farage has also done nothing illegal but he doesn't go around saying every little thing other people do is a sackable offence, year after year, pretending he is whiter than white. Its a key difference!

 

[ImpSaint]

On the Charlie Kirk topic - have there actually been many significant right wing political assassinations in the past 50 or 60 years?

Because a lot of the predominant ones in the Anglosphere at least are “from the left”. JFK, Bobby Kennedy, MLK, John Lennon are ones that come to mind. Albeit those are all quite a while ago

There were attempts at Reagan and Trump.

I mention this because the right wing really aren’t taking this well at all. They are absolutely unhinged in some of their responses and calls for reprisals. And maybe this is because the media environment is very different now to the much earlier examples. But I expect also an element of them being the party of the establishment. The media in the US is marching pretty much in lockstep with Trump now. Hardly any pushback. An MSNBC analyst was fired for suggesting that Kirk contributed towards to hostile environment that saw this ultimately happen. And this is supposedly the “left wing Fox News”. Whereas actual Fox News has become unglued with them (and the president himself) basically calling for war against “The Left” and “them” despite us still not knowing who did this

I just wonder how much of this is the media environment and how much is the deeply establishment right wing being completely shocked that something like this could happen to “them”. And not really knowing how to deal with it

As I write I suspect more of the former but can’t be fully sure. And have probably forgotten something notable

I just can’t help but think about something a comedian or commentator said (forgotten who) about high profile assassinations and how it’s always people who say “why don’t we all just try to be nicer to each other” and clearly someone takes exception to that clearly outrageous notion

I think it is more that while everybody seems to have noticed the demographics of the electorate have switched sides almost 1:1. The left now vote for the right and the right now vote for the left (should it actually be that the politicians have switched or the voters?) they seem not to have noticed that the violence used to be from the right towards the left and that has massively swung the other way with people seemingly blind to it.

Partly because of the whole "anti-facism" is a good thing but also because of the spin of it all.

In the aftermath of Charlie Kirk's shooting the talk from the left wasn't in terms of how bad this was or that there was a problem in the left. The focus was on a fear they have decided upon how the right would react! What about how the left will react? Will they be emboldened? Will there be copycats? No focus on that. Purely right wing is bad, what will the right do!

I was watching yesterday a left wing commentator in the UK complaining about Trump's message not because of the tone or the BS he spouted in it but because he specifically said "Kirk was killed by a left wing radical" or words to that effect and this commentators complaint was that no-one knew at that time the killer was a left wing radical!

"They" are completely detached from society as a collective despite their pursuit of the ideology of collectivism. What they actually chase is authoritarianism where society is supressed and only the "collective" approved viewpoint is allowed!

 

[BackFromBeyond]

Raynor was forced to resign in the end because she has been one of the most vocal about "them and us" tax avoidance same as tax evasion" blah blah. Tax avoidance kills children etc, etc. She did nothing illegal. She fell on her own sword.

Farage has also done nothing illegal but he doesn't go around saying every little thing other people do is a sackable offence, year after year, pretending he is whiter than white. Its a key difference!

He called for Rayner's sacking - before the committee findings. Also pointley stated he brought forward his keynote speech at Reform's party conference after the resignation because the government is “deep in crisis” and “not fit to govern”.

He's said things about this house purchasing arrangement, which appear already to be on shaky foundations.

 

[West Kent Saint]

Raynor was forced to resign in the end because she has been one of the most vocal about "them and us" tax avoidance same as tax evasion" blah blah. Tax avoidance kills children etc, etc. She did nothing illegal. She fell on her own sword.

Farage has also done nothing illegal but he doesn't go around saying every little thing other people do is a sackable offence, year after year, pretending he is whiter than white. Its a key difference!

No, he does far worse.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Jeeze, Twitter is now naming three names of people that 4Chan thinks are the killer. If I was FBI that would annoy the piss out of me. Nearly as much as if I were one of those three people and had nothing to do with it.

 

[ImpSaint]

He called for Rayner's sacking - before the committee findings. Also pointley stated he brought forward his keynote speech at Reform's party conference after the resignation because the government is “deep in crisis” and “not fit to govern”.

He's said things about this house purchasing arrangement, which appear already to be on shaky foundations.

He called for her sacking because of her saying other people should be sacked for not breaking the law.

The only thing he said which is being jumped on as "shaky" is he said in response to a question "I" have just bought a house in Clacton which when pushed recently he is now being questioned on the spurious grounds that he said he bought a house when it was his partner that bought the house. I my wife (or partner) bought a house and we were a couple then I might say I've just bought a house. They are going mad over this silly nothingburger. I/We/She spoken off the cuff is their whole argument!.

 

[ImpSaint]

No, he does far worse.

I agree he has, but he doesn't grandstand on being whiter than white. If you're gonna stand on a squeaky clean ticket you need to be squeaky clean. Farage doesn;t pretend to be an angel.

 

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He called for her sacking because of her saying other people should be sacked for not breaking the law.

The only thing he said which is being jumped on as "shaky" is he said in response to a question "I" have just bought a house in Clacton which when pushed recently he is now being questioned on the spurious grounds that he said he bought a house when it was his partner that bought the house. I my wife (or partner) bought a house and we were a couple then I might say I've just bought a house. They are going mad over this silly nothingburger. I/We/She spoken off the cuff is their whole argument!.

Why defend that professional liar and grifter?

By the way, this is right wing tolerance:

https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1966159603483177223

 

[SAINTOSPREY]

Putting aside the dodgy history and the sanctimonious clap trap, Lord Mandelson was probably doing a good job, at a very difficult time in UK/USA relationships, it's going to be almost impossible to find a replacement that can take his place? In the dog eat dog world of Politics and PC attitudes are we getting our priorities right?

 

[ImpSaint]

Why defend that professional liar and grifter?

By the way, this is right wing tolerance:

https://x.com/sturdyAlex/status/1966159603483177223

I'm not defending him. I'm saying that Raynor's problem was calling out the dirty pretending to be clean and then turning out to be as dirty. Farage is what he is, doesn't pretend to be anything else.

As for your "this is right wing tolerance" bit. You love to single out the lowest common denominator and present it as representative!

This is the antifa "counter" protestors:

You must log in or register to see images

 

[......loading......]

I'm not defending him. I'm saying that Raynor's problem was calling out the dirty pretending to be clean and then turning out to be as dirty. Farage is what he is, doesn't pretend to be anything else.

As for your "this is right wing tolerance" bit. You love to single out the lowest common denominator and present it as representative!

This is the antifa "counter" protestors:

You must log in or register to see images

Can you find me a video of antifa attacking one person who repeatedly says he doesn’t have any problem with them? I will wait for it.

Or we can all agree the flag shaggers are just scum bags.

 

[Lemons and Oranges]

Since we're into conspiracy territory, how about blaming Russia/Putin for the killing of Charlie Kirk? A prolonged period of American internecine strife would take their minds off other global issues, like Ukraine, Poland, the Baltic States, so the current situation would seem to be just what Putin wants to happen

 

[Libby]

Putting aside the dodgy history and the sanctimonious clap trap, Lord Mandelson was probably doing a good job, at a very difficult time in UK/USA relationships, it's going to be almost impossible to find a replacement that can take his place? In the dog eat dog world of Politics and PC attitudes are we getting our priorities right?

Do you think we should have somebody who maintained a friendship with a convicted sex offender in government?

 

[ImpSaint]

Can you find me a video of antifa attacking one person who repeatedly says he doesn’t have any problem with them? I will wait for it.

Or we can all agree the flag shaggers are just scum bags.

Do your own searching. lol. And think what you want of the flags

 

[......loading......]

Do your own searching. lol. And think what you want of the flags

Here is what I think. I think the right is essentially tribal in nature. It is an ideology of conservative dogma. About preservation of the national myth. I think this is fine if you are scared of a changing world but it is also far more likely to invite anger and violence than left wing ideology. I find it endlessly amusing that the left are accused of having no testosterone, of being bleeding-heart liberals, and simultaneously of being violent.

The right endlessly provokes violence. All the statistics prove this. And the right screams about graffiti and blocked roads while making excuses for thugs and fear-mongers.

The left is at its core peaceful and open to change. The right, at its core, is closed and and fearful.

 

[Ian Thumwood]

Do you think we should have somebody who maintained a friendship with a convicted sex offender in government?

I think this is the issue. Should never have been friends to begin with and to continue the friendship afterwards is unexcusable.

 

[......loading......]

I think this is the issue. Should never have been friends to begin with and to continue the friendship afterwards is unexcusable.

Yeah, Trump gets away with it as he insists he had cut ties by the time everything came out. Mandelson not only continues the friendship but tells his ‘friend’ it is a miscarriage of justice.

 

[SAINTOSPREY]

Do you think we should have somebody who maintained a friendship with a convicted sex offender in government?

It's OK for Trump. I am ambivolent about it, I do think it is wrong, but him being loyal to a friend isn't a bad thing, just misguided in this case, when the truth came out, it was a matter of regret that he had got it so wrong. No going back can't change history.