Off Topic Politics Thread

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Le Tissier's Laces said:
Not sure how the gun loving section of the MAGA crowd (which will be most of them), who continually tell us they need guns to protect them from a tyrannical government, are squaring away the fact that they have, right now, got a tyrannical government kicking off.
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But that observation requires an element of intelligence. Something that I do not associate with MAGA.
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
This is exactly what Trump's supporters voted for. I agree that the Latin gangs and organised crime is an issue but am unconvinced that Trump's policy will achieve the required result.

I feel that American society has been complicit in creating this problem. They have benefitted frim cheap Latin labour but are unprepared for the consequences. Not sure if the expulsion of all illegals is practical. I do agree that this is a problem for the US yet feel that Trump will create more problems than solutions.

In my opinion the immigration issue is one which will feed into Trump's support. He will relish the confrontation which will play well with Trump's suppprters yet i just feel that Trump will alienate many in Europe and the Liberal West.i cannot imagine his idealology getting much traction in Europe other than with the fringe head-bangers. Not sure if America will ever be able to extracate itself from the damage Trump has done .
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Not sure where you get the idea that his ideology won’t get much traction in Europe.
Have you seen how Reform are currently polling in the U.K.? Then there’s AfD in Germany, Front Populaire in France. Wake up, this is an international phenomenon. Fascism, unbelievably (and that’s what it is) is on the march everywhere. The world’s best hope is that the oligarchs, especially the tech oligarchs, who funding and driving this alarming trend, will lose confidence in the project when they see what happens in the US. But actually, unless the world collectively targets the power and wealth of those same oligarchs, democracy is for sale.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
But that observation requires an element of intelligence. Something that I do not associate with MAGA.
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Most people don’t think very deeply about politics, and their emotions are easily manipulated; there’s simply no need for populists to appeal to reason. Which is why they never do.
 
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Ian Thumwood said:
This is exactly what Trump's supporters voted for. I agree that the Latin gangs and organised crime is an issue but am unconvinced that Trump's policy will achieve the required result.

I feel that American society has been complicit in creating this problem. They have benefitted frim cheap Latin labour but are unprepared for the consequences. Not sure if the expulsion of all illegals is practical. I do agree that this is a problem for the US yet feel that Trump will create more problems than solutions.

In my opinion the immigration issue is one which will feed into Trump's support. He will relish the confrontation which will play well with Trump's suppprters yet i just feel that Trump will alienate many in Europe and the Liberal West.i cannot imagine his idealology getting much traction in Europe other than with the fringe head-bangers. Not sure if America will ever be able to extracate itself from the damage Trump has done .
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Are the England supporters who went to Barcelona for the Andorra Game, now headbangers?
 
Archers Road said:
Most people don’t think very deeply about politics, and their emotions are easily manipulated; there’s simply no need for populists to appeal to reason. Which is why they never do.
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We could be about to see the left have their go at it though. Those that are increasingly flocking to "Collective" which could see a much more aggressive Green party, far distant to the calm version that people see with Caroline Lucas merging with the Corbynites and the pro gaza independents!

Its not just a right wing thing. The whole of politics is being turned upside down by the "new media" outlets. And "change" is moving much faster than politics is used to.
 
ImpSaint said:
We could be about to see the left have their go at it though. Those that are increasingly flocking to "Collective" which could see a much more aggressive Green party, far distant to the calm version that people see with Caroline Lucas merging with the Corbynites and the pro gaza independents!

Its not just a right wing thing. The whole of politics is being turned upside down by the "new media" outlets. And "change" is moving much faster than politics is used to.
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Isn’t anyone with an ounce of humanity pro Gaza?
 
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......loading...... said:
Isn’t anyone with an ounce of humanity pro Gaza?
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I would say of course but again it isn't the black or white issue that statement indicates. "Pro Gaza" in some eyes means everything including Hamas and those same eyes tend to see the same with the Jewish vs Zionist argument!

In general I would guess most of this country are "pro Gaza" with the caveat that doesn't mean they are "anti Israel." As usual the argument with radicals is "with us or against us" and there is no middle ground, nor any room for nuance. Pick a side or you're "one of them."
 
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ImpSaint said:
I would say of course but again it isn't the black or white issue that statement indicates. "Pro Gaza" in some eyes means everything including Hamas and those same eyes tend to see the same with the Jewish vs Zionist argument!

In general I would guess most of this country are "pro Gaza" with the caveat that doesn't mean they are "anti Israel." As usual the argument with radicals is "with us or against us" and there is no middle ground, nor any room for nuance. Pick a side or you're "one of them."
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Unfortunately true, those that seek to lead us also seek to polarise.
The daily reports of what are considered as war crimes in Gaza and the Hamas lead atrocities and continued holding of hostages have resulted in the UN Human Rights Council identifying "clear evidence" of war crimes by both Hamas and the IDF.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2024/07/17/october-7-crimes-against-humanity-war-crimes-hamas-led-groups
https://www.bbc.com/news/articles/c0r1xl5wgnko re the actions of Israel
There's also the brutality of the ultra settlers in the west bank shown in Louis Theroux's excellent documentary.
"If you were shocked by my film on Israeli settlers in the West Bank, you haven’t been paying attention. The response to The Settlers has been humbling. But the ongoing displacement and intimidation of Palestinians is more severe than we could capture"
https://www.theguardian.com/comment...umentary-on-israeli-settlers-in-the-west-bank
 
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British troops were the first victims of Israeli terrorists in the St David's hotel massacre. I would say that Britain was oro Israel prior to 1948 and that public favourability has steadily declined since then. The British governments have largely been out of step with public opinion on this matter. I think that most of the world is now anti Israeli and that any nuances are beung erroded.

The one perspective i have never seen thoroughly discussed is the culpability of Iran. They prompted the actions of Hamas but were never prepared to directly support them by taking on Israel leaving the Gazans to their fate. I think their support is not only very cynical but detrimental because they are only prepared to fight Israel through proxies . In a nutshell, the allies of the Palestinians only make things worse rather rhan either compromise or directly deal with Israel which would result in some sort of conclusion. I think Iran has the ability to support Palestine in ways that do not put the Palestinians at risk. As things stand, i just feel that Iran should be more positive and not be a nuisance neighbour.
 
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......loading...... said:
I am pro Israeli, pro Arab, pro white, pro brown, pro human being. I am against Hamas and Netanyahu and all those profiting from human misery. It is no coincidence that governments that sit on the right account for so much of the world’s evils, as nationalistic ideas legitimise the value of some at the expense of the other.
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Yep agreed. What Hamas have done / are doing & the Israeli government are doing is just disgraceful. Ps. Had a thousand different adjectives for that end description.
 
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I just feel rhat we need to bring Iran in from the cold. We could unfluence their internal politics and also try to do more trade to facilitate Iran not helpung Russia. A morr docile Iran would get more respect and curb Israeli exesses.

More effort is needed to bring Iran 'inside' and not ostracize them.
 
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