Off Topic Politics Thread

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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
A few on here have mentioned it (maybe even you?). Once upon a time in Iraq on iPlayer. An excellent take.
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I think I missed it. I stumbled on a thread of Iraqis discussing the war Iraq as it is an anniversary. I was really horrified by the stats and video. For some reason I didn’t remember it as horrendously as it actually was. I feel a strong sense of guilt about it.

And to think we are complaining about Muslims when we have brutally murdered so many arabs. More than you count.
 
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......loading...... said:
I think I missed it. I stumbled on a thread of Iraqis discussing the war Iraq as it is an anniversary. I was really horrified by the stats and video. For some reason I didn’t remember it as horrendously as it actually was. I feel a strong sense of guilt about it.

And to think we are complaining about Muslims when we have brutally murdered so many arabs. More than you count.
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My take from Once Upon a Time in Iraq was that Saddam was a madman, dangerous etc, but he was the glue that held the region together. If we had left alone maybe the region would be in a better place, and some of the global terrorism may not have happened. Maybe not and he would have got worse, but we havent exactly helped
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
My take from Once Upon a Time in Iraq was that Saddam was a madman, dangerous etc, but he was the glue that held the region together. If we had left alone maybe the region would be in a better place, and some of the global terrorism may not have happened. Maybe not and he would have got worse, but we havent exactly helped
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We certainly would not have all these immigrants. So maybe all the racists should turn the blame on us and the US.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
My take from Once Upon a Time in Iraq was that Saddam was a madman, dangerous etc, but he was the glue that held the region together. If we had left alone maybe the region would be in a better place, and some of the global terrorism may not have happened. Maybe not and he would have got worse, but we havent exactly helped
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Correct.
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
My take from Once Upon a Time in Iraq was that Saddam was a madman, dangerous etc, but he was the glue that held the region together. If we had left alone maybe the region would be in a better place, and some of the global terrorism may not have happened. Maybe not and he would have got worse, but we havent exactly helped
Click to expand...
Oh what is this horror you have me watching?<steam>
 
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thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I watched it and was shell shocked for a few days. So powerful.
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It is compelling. However I used to work in youth homelessness in London, and I worked with a young Kurd who’s family was gassed by Sadam. So whilst accepting of the reality of the West’s **** up, you can imagine (and mine to an extent) his satisfaction at his demise.
 
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West Kent Saint said:
It is compelling. However I used to work in youth homelessness in London, and I worked with a young Kurd who’s family was gassed by Sadam. So whilst accepting of the reality of the West’s **** up, you can imagine (and mine to an extent) his satisfaction at his demise.
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They do cover that in the documentary. There is a woman who says she wishes she got to torture Saddam as he murdered 14 members of her family. They are also quite clear that he only began to rise in popularity again during the trial - and that was partly because the US had forced all the police, teachers and doctors to quit and left the country in chaos.
 
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......loading...... said:
Have you ever made a post without Daily Mail style tabloidese?
Warped!

Broken!

Insane!

Madness!

Suicidal!
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I use extreme language because I’ve discussed this a lot and get called a crack pot etc.

To me the ones who are the actual crack pots are the ones that still think socialist ideas are amazing and trust the state to allocate capital well.

I get annoyed as I want the best for the UK and all I see are bad ideas being proposed (like that Gary economics bloke you posted. Absolute charlatan) whilst good ideas get dismissed out of hand.

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Here is some data that accentuates the point we were discussing.

There is A LOT of long term data that economic freedom actually reduces poverty.

You can’t tax a country to prosperity. You can’t wave a magic wand and drag people out of destitution. You have to foster innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and encourage genuine growth.

The exact opposite of what Labour are doing.

The UKs economic freedom score has dropped from 82% in 2005 to 68% now. With that, poverty and the wealth gap are actually accelerating even more.

The government / state / high taxes are the enemy of progress.
It genuinely makes me sad that everyone is being taught to hate capitalism; it’s the system that has worked so well; brought so many people out of poverty. Yet everyone is being taught to blame it for society’s ills
 
saintrichie123 said:
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I think she will be pushed out after the May elections. She has proven herself to be useless and there is no way back for the Conservatives until people have had enough of Labour. The Right is currently discredited.

Good to see Starmer cuurently embracing closer ties with Europe. We eventually rejoin now that everyone bar the rabidly stupid appreciate that Brexit was a disaster. I also think that the EU is totally diffeerent from in 2016. We will be back in by Starmer's second term.
 
Osvaldorama said:
I use extreme language because I’ve discussed this a lot and get called a crack pot etc.

To me the ones who are the actual crack pots are the ones that still think socialist ideas are amazing and trust the state to allocate capital well.

I get annoyed as I want the best for the UK and all I see are bad ideas being proposed (like that Gary economics bloke you posted. Absolute charlatan) whilst good ideas get dismissed out of hand.

You must log in or register to see images


Here is some data that accentuates the point we were discussing.

There is A LOT of long term data that economic freedom actually reduces poverty.

You can’t tax a country to prosperity. You can’t wave a magic wand and drag people out of destitution. You have to foster innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and encourage genuine growth.

The exact opposite of what Labour are doing.

The UKs economic freedom score has dropped from 82% in 2005 to 68% now. With that, poverty and the wealth gap are actually accelerating even more.

The government / state / high taxes are the enemy of progress.
It genuinely makes me sad that everyone is being taught to hate capitalism; it’s the system that has worked so well; brought so many people out of poverty. Yet everyone is being taught to blame it for society’s ills
Click to expand...
See, now you are still falling into bad habits.

1. This graph is not much use without a lot more context. Which nations are included? I know economic freedom will be very low in most third word countries where poverty is very high - so is that being allowed to skew the data? Is this matching similar economies? When you provide this kind of data you are going to have to lean into it and explain how and why it supports your ideas.

2. Generalising what others think. I think that a few people here are skeptical of capitalism, but the vast majority are not in way haters of capitalism.

3. A habit to sermonise rather than discuss. Not every topic is one group evil “hate capitalism” “enemy of progress” vs you. It borders on hysterics.
 
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Osvaldorama said:
I use extreme language because I’ve discussed this a lot and get called a crack pot etc.

To me the ones who are the actual crack pots are the ones that still think socialist ideas are amazing and trust the state to allocate capital well.

I get annoyed as I want the best for the UK and all I see are bad ideas being proposed (like that Gary economics bloke you posted. Absolute charlatan) whilst good ideas get dismissed out of hand.

You must log in or register to see images


Here is some data that accentuates the point we were discussing.

There is A LOT of long term data that economic freedom actually reduces poverty.

You can’t tax a country to prosperity. You can’t wave a magic wand and drag people out of destitution. You have to foster innovation, entrepreneurial spirit and encourage genuine growth.

The exact opposite of what Labour are doing.

The UKs economic freedom score has dropped from 82% in 2005 to 68% now. With that, poverty and the wealth gap are actually accelerating even more.

The government / state / high taxes are the enemy of progress.
It genuinely makes me sad that everyone is being taught to hate capitalism; it’s the system that has worked so well; brought so many people out of poverty. Yet everyone is being taught to blame it for society’s ills
Click to expand...

Top follow up on @......loading...... post, it really is the "I am right" and the preaching that gets a lot of people's goats. I know you will say 'so what', but I am just putting it out there.

As I have said loads of times, I don't actually think socialist policies are good, but it isn't as black and white as that. To me, parts of capitalism are excellent, other parts not so good and same with socialist policies. Despite this apparent fence sitting, I would still put myself right of centre.

IMO uncontrolled capitalism (an oxymoron maybe!) or uncontrolled socialism isn't any 'good', but a blend of both works well. The economy needs to be strong and prosperous, but we have to remember that it isn't all about profit, and there are real people in a nation.
 
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