Off Topic Politics Thread

[StJabbo1]

Elon Musk's achievements are undeniable. his companies can be credited with having a big hand in the demise of the fossil fuelled cars, buses etc and leaps forward in battery technology.

However he was a ****, he is a **** and will be a **** all of his life.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

This is the problem with your views. You still believe the media is somewhat held to account or truthful. It’s simply not true.

All of it is controlled and has its own agenda. Every single article in the legacy media has an angle. They aren’t there to inform you, they are there to control you.

Understand that legacy media is just as bad for your brain as social media, you’re just more accepting of the ideas as they’ve been pumped into you for longer.

This is categorically nonsense, but then you won’t listen to people who know a lot more than you do.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

You misunderstand how it actually works.

Almost no one is saying there is some evil cabal of aligned interests pulling the strings.

It’s more like.. there is a complex web of incentives and those at the top with money and power use that power to push and control certain narratives and silence others.

For example; the Tesla stuff. If you are actually aware of what’s happening, it’s obvious there is a huge media campaign against it and has been for years.

They have been carrying out a “short & distort” campaign against Tesla for a long time. They amplify bad news, and don’t mention good news in many media outlets.

This strategy of short and distort is often used against companies to bring the share price down so short sellers make $$.

In Tesla’s case this has been obvious for years. The attacks against Tesla became more intense the more he spoke out against the democrats/leftist ideas.

Os. You have absolutely no idea how it works. You think you do. You don’t. You’re actually offensively stupid on this stuff, whilst thinking you have some special insight.

 

[......loading......]

I have never said that, a single time. You are lying about my views

So you do believe in man-made climate change which is agreed by almost all scientists worldwide? That is great!

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

This is the problem with your views. You still believe the media is somewhat held to account or truthful. It’s simply not true.

All of it is controlled and has its own agenda. Every single article in the legacy media has an angle. They aren’t there to inform you, they are there to control you.

Understand that legacy media is just as bad for your brain as social media, you’re just more accepting of the ideas as they’ve been pumped into you for longer.

Once again Os, do you understand irony?

 

[Osvaldorama]

Os. You have absolutely no idea how it works. You think you do. You don’t. You’re actually offensively stupid on this stuff, whilst thinking you have some special insight.

Not true. I’m objectively correct and I’ll tell you how I know.

Many years ago, I bought a lot of shares of Tesla. At the time, there were many articles saying it was a scam, it was a terrible company, it was going to zero etc.

People, exactly like you, thought it was a crazy investment.

Instead, I am up significantly on that investment. It has done incredibly well.

Over the entire time, the media have been calling it a scam/terrible company. Pumping out articles about how it will never succeed.

Clearly, someone is lying here. Either it’s the media or the share price and the company fundamentals.

How do you reconcile the constant negative media coverage, vs the incredible underlying success of the company?

 

[thereisonlyoneno7]

I’m impressed that you managed to set up an international brokerage account to buy US shares to be fair.

 

[......loading......]

The coverage of Tesla has been pretty positive. The coverage of Musk… well, he promotes far right parties, attacks European values, retweets posts about replacement theory, calls British heroes ****s, does very ill-advised hand waves, says Ukraine is burning his Teslas… etc.

 

[Osvaldorama]

The coverage of Tesla has been pretty positive. The coverage of Musk… well, he promotes far right parties, attacks European values, retweets posts about replacement theory, calls British heroes ****s, does very ill-advised hand waves, says Ukraine is burning his Teslas… etc.

Wrong. There has been hit piece after hit piece on it for years. I would know as I have been following intimately

 

[Osvaldorama]

I’m impressed that you managed to set up an international brokerage account to buy US shares to be fair.

Great post

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

Not true. I’m objectively correct and I’ll tell you how I know.

Many years ago, I bought a lot of shares of Tesla. At the time, there were many articles saying it was a scam, it was a terrible company, it was going to zero etc.

People, exactly like you, thought it was a crazy investment.

Instead, I am up significantly on that investment. It has done incredibly well.

Over the entire time, the media have been calling it a scam/terrible company. Pumping out articles about how it will never succeed.

Clearly, someone is lying here. Either it’s the media or the share price and the company fundamentals.

How do you reconcile the constant negative media coverage, vs the incredible underlying success of the company?

Wow. This is absolutely more wild than I suspected.

Right, first off - "people, like me" thought it was a crazy investment - where have I ever said it was a crazy investment? Self evidently, if you got in early, it's been a very good investment. Tesla is a great company. I think they've taken their eye off the ball a bit recently, but I've never said it wasn't a good investment - I wouldn't, because I'm self-aware enough to know where I don't know much about stuff - economics and investment being one of them. If only you would admit you have no idea how media and journalism works, then we might be able to get somewhere.

Just to get it straight though - someone at some point in the media thought it wasn't going to go anywhere, and therefore that informs your belief that the media are all controlled and biased and trying to short companies to benefit the people running them? **** me, that's about a thousand times more stupid than I thought you were being, and I thought you were being one of the top ten stupidest people I'd come across in the first place (when it came to this stuff).

Os, go and talk to some journalists to start off with. Actually go and speak to them, in real life. Understand that the main driving force for pretty much every one of them is a desire to uncover and deliver truth, often against some pretty insurmountable odds. Don't go and try and find a singular example online that backs up your wild beliefs and then try and use it as a 'gotcha'. Actually go and meet some people who work in the industry.

If you can't do that, listen to people who are married to someone who was recently named one of the top twenty trailblazing women in journalism. Take some information from people who on a daily basis are listening to editorial meetings, where the ONLY concern is reporting facts, with zero agenda, despite what you want to believe. Realise that it's grifters on social media who are chasing retweets and notoriety who are the ones more likely to be lying to you. Just for two seconds have some ****ing humility.

 

[......loading......]

Wrong. There has been hit piece after hit piece on it for years. I would know as I have been following intimately

Oh well. The main lesson here is, don’t mix business and politics. If you want to tell Europe to accept corrupt Russians in Romanian elections, that Zelensky should deny his own constitution to please him, call the polish FM a small man, claim climate change is not real while selling a green product… you are going to **** up your brand. That is just an objective fact.

And that doesn’t even mention the DOGE ****.

 

[StJabbo1]

The coverage of Tesla has been pretty positive. The coverage of Musk… well, he promotes far right parties, attacks European values, retweets posts about replacement theory, calls British heroes ****s, does very ill-advised hand waves, says Ukraine is burning his Teslas… etc.

Yes I thought the Tesla reviews were positive on the whole and the auto industry press has, quite rightly, pointed out their models and technology have fallen behind competitors. Musk on the other hand deserves all the bad press he gets.

 

[Mostlymadeofwater]

Of course you would disagree. But it depends on which metrics you use. Of course you’ve picked a metric which looks bad, because you have an agenda.

But you are wrong. They created and innovated in an industry that was pretty stagnant for decades. They’ve already achieved many feats that people said were impossible.

They are finalising self-driving cars and robo-taxis. They have the largest market cap and most cash on hand of any car company.
2024 Tesla = $29bn
2024 Toyota = $97bn

Elon will continue to prove you and everyone that doubts him wrong, the way he always does

You said 'the worlds most successful car company'. I can't think of a metric where Tesla has this apart from being specific in maybe best selling electric car. It's not picking a metric which looks bad. Perhaps you meant something different, but say so. We can all be wrong

Tesla has achieved some amazing things with real innovation in battery and motor technology. Do remember that these companies aren't about the figurehead. Tesla existed before Musk, there are talented people working there and some of the self driving tech is really exciting - some serious M&A there though.

I have little against Elon Musks companies, it is the way he behaves in public I find abhorrent. It is the spreading of lies. It is the pretence of improving government while engineering the system to benefit himself that I object to.

 

[Osvaldorama]

You said 'the worlds most successful car company'. I can't think of a metric where Tesla has this apart from being specific in maybe best selling electric car. It's not picking a metric which looks bad. Perhaps you meant something different, but say so. We can all be wrong

Tesla has achieved some amazing things with real innovation in battery and motor technology. Do remember that these companies aren't about the figurehead. Tesla existed before Musk, there are talented people working there and some of the self driving tech is really exciting - some serious M&A there though.

I have little against Elon Musks companies, it is the way he behaves in public I find abhorrent. It is the spreading of lies. It is the pretence of improving government while engineering the system to benefit himself that I object to.

There wasn’t a company before musk btw.

He risked hundreds of millions of his own money to bootstrap the company. One his many incredible achievements which people try to downplay.

Most of your post is fair and I agree with - however I object to your last point. I believe he genuinely wants to improve government and make it more efficient.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

You said 'the worlds most successful car company'. I can't think of a metric where Tesla has this apart from being specific in maybe best selling electric car. It's not picking a metric which looks bad. Perhaps you meant something different, but say so. We can all be wrong

Tesla has achieved some amazing things with real innovation in battery and motor technology. Do remember that these companies aren't about the figurehead. Tesla existed before Musk, there are talented people working there and some of the self driving tech is really exciting - some serious M&A there though.

I have little against Elon Musks companies, it is the way he behaves in public I find abhorrent. It is the spreading of lies. It is the pretence of improving government while engineering the system to benefit himself that I object to.

Os can never be wrong.

 

[Osvaldorama]

Wow. This is absolutely more wild than I suspected.

Right, first off - "people, like me" thought it was a crazy investment - where have I ever said it was a crazy investment? Self evidently, if you got in early, it's been a very good investment. Tesla is a great company. I think they've taken their eye off the ball a bit recently, but I've never said it wasn't a good investment - I wouldn't, because I'm self-aware enough to know where I don't know much about stuff - economics and investment being one of them. If only you would admit you have no idea how media and journalism works, then we might be able to get somewhere.

Just to get it straight though - someone at some point in the media thought it wasn't going to go anywhere, and therefore that informs your belief that the media are all controlled and biased and trying to short companies to benefit the people running them? **** me, that's about a thousand times more stupid than I thought you were being, and I thought you were being one of the top ten stupidest people I'd come across in the first place (when it came to this stuff).

Os, go and talk to some journalists to start off with. Actually go and speak to them, in real life. Understand that the main driving force for pretty much every one of them is a desire to uncover and deliver truth, often against some pretty insurmountable odds. Don't go and try and find a singular example online that backs up your wild beliefs and then try and use it as a 'gotcha'. Actually go and meet some people who work in the industry.

If you can't do that, listen to people who are married to someone who was recently named one of the top twenty trailblazing women in journalism. Take some information from people who on a daily basis are listening to editorial meetings, where the ONLY concern is reporting facts, with zero agenda, despite what you want to believe. Realise that it's grifters on social media who are chasing retweets and notoriety who are the ones more likely to be lying to you. Just for two seconds have some ****ing humility.

I don’t think a generally corrupt legacy media institution is a juxtaposing idea with credible, excellent journalists.

Of course there are many great journalists out there that want to honestly report stories. It’s just there are specific large agendas which are controlled, along with certain other publications which push out news.

There is something called a “wrap-up smear” which is a well known political tactic to associate an opponent with a specific damaging idea.

Nancy Pelosi herself admitted this is a tactic used by politicians. If they literally admit to something like this, why do you think it doesn’t go on?

Not to mention that Short & Distort campaigns are a recognised crime. They just rarely get enforced.

 

[......loading......]

There wasn’t a company before musk btw.

He risked hundreds of millions of his own money to bootstrap the company. One his many incredible achievements which people try to downplay.

Most of your post is fair and I agree with - however I object to your last point. I believe he genuinely wants to improve government and make it more efficient.

Do you agree that Musk should probably not retweet inflammatory posts about ‘libtards’ and ‘woke Europe’ by such intellectual eminences as BenTheWineGuy if he has a responsible position in government?

 

[Osvaldorama]

Do you agree that Musk should probably not retweet inflammatory posts about ‘libtards’ and ‘woke Europe’ by such intellectual eminences as BenTheWineGuy if he has a responsible position in government?

I think Europe is slowly being destroyed by woke libtards, so no. I wouldn’t put it in those terms, but I agree with Musk generally shining a spotlight on this damaging problem.

 

[Le Tissier's Laces]

I don’t think a generally corrupt legacy media institution is a juxtaposing idea with credible, excellent journalists.

Of course there are many great journalists out there that want to honestly report stories. It’s just there are specific large agendas which are controlled, along with certain other publications which push out news.

There is something called a “wrap-up smear” which is a well known political tactic to associate an opponent with a specific damaging idea.

Nancy Pelosi herself admitted this is a tactic used by politicians. If they literally admit to something like this, why do you think it doesn’t go on?

Not to mention that Short & Distort campaigns are a recognised crime. They just rarely get enforced.

This is such a confused post - firstly nobody is saying there is zero bias within elements of media. Nobody is saying that sometimes nefarious tricks don't happen (though slightly odd conflating political tactics with media tactics). In fact, Archers made precisely this point, very well, earlier.

What there is though, as Archers said, is accountability and a level of standard that are absolutely missing from social media platforms, the insane utterings of the likes of Musk and Trump (who, by the way, are ABSOLUTELY trying to control the narrative in a nefarious way. I mean it's so very obvious it hurts) and within 'citizen journalists'.

There are literally people risking their lives to report the truth, who are then being told by people like you that they are liars, purveyors of untruths, part of some broader narrative etc, and that the people we should be trusting are known liars such as Elon Musk and fraudsters like Donald Trump. ****ing ****ing ****ing hell.