Off Topic Politics Thread

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Suckered in to the whole thing, arent you Ned.

Hope it works out, especially for you.

Like i said many times, be great if it all comes off, but I'm allowed my cynical view on things, as I don't buy in carte blanche to how you see it.

As in, we all have to make sacrifices, I am on extra tax, vat on the best education I can buy for my children. I only do it as I love my children more than people who can't afford to send their kids to private schools.

So if we are all doing it, why couldn't we give a slightly reduced public sector pay, after all, we all in this together.

I know you'll come back with underfunding from the Tories, and agree with that sentiment, I do get it, but right now we are all in the ****, I wouldn't have funded so much, not to the levels they did.
 
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My name is Billy said:
Suckered in to the whole thing, arent you Ned.

Hope it works out, especially for you.

Like i said many times, be great if it all comes off, but I'm allowed my cynical view on things, as I don't buy in carte blanche to how you see it.

As in, we all have to make sacrifices, I am on extra tax, vat on the best education I can buy for my children. I only do it as I love my children more than people who can't afford to send their kids to private schools.

So if we are all doing it, why couldn't we give a slightly reduced public sector pay, after all, we all in this together.

I know you'll come back with underfunding from the Tories, and agree with that sentiment, I do get it, but right now we are all in the ****, I wouldn't have funded so much, not to the levels they did.
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If we are all in it together then you need to swallow more taxes. But we aren’t all in it together. The people gluing the country together should not take the slack.
5.5% does enough to make some teachers feel valued but does not mitigate for 14 years of austerity.
 
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......loading...... said:
If we are all in it together then you need to swallow more taxes. But we aren’t all in it together. The people gluing the country together should not take the slack.
5.5% does enough to make some teachers feel valued but does not mitigate for 14 years of austerity.
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I literally am walking more taxes. Not sure what you don’t understand.

I think you hear what you want to hear fella.

Gluing the country together <laugh><laugh><laugh>

There really is no helping you.
You think it is me that is decisive, that is separatist, yet you come out with a statement like that
 
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My name is Billy said:
I literally am walking more taxes. Not sure what you don’t understand.

I think you hear what you want to hear fella.

Gluing the country together <laugh><laugh><laugh>

There really is no helping you.
You think it is me that is decisive, that is separatist, yet you come out with a statement like that
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What are you talking about? You have gone stark raving mad. You are "walking more taxes"? What does that mean? What taxes?

You think the social services in this country don't glue the country together? Remember that when there is no ambulance for your kid when they fall and break their leg; remember that when no police come when you are being burgled. You are unbelievable.
 
Typo, on the mobile.

Think you get the gist, am paying more, but you knew that...

I think we all glue this thing together, not a few select areas.

Then again, you are pretty needy, can see why you'd post that.
 
Billy Flanders said:
Typo, on the mobile.

Think you get the gist, am paying more, but you knew that...

I think we all glue this thing together, not a few select areas.

Then again, you are pretty needy, can see why you'd post that.
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You actually have no clue. Why is everything a competition with you? There are dozens of posts of you complaining about people picking on your personally. You repeatedly ask people to respond seriously to your posts. But when I do, you act like a spoilt child. It isn't funny or cool to respond to debate by talking about your car. That was gross. It isn't okay to keep calling me names, when you cry so hard about being called names yourself.

Your attitude to the people who work for others in this country, whose wages are capped and earn no bonuses, who work long hours, often very passionately, for the benefit of others and society as a whole absolutely sickens me.

We may well all glue this thing together, but not to appreciate that we have a class of people in this country who exist in professions which are designed to make the country wealthier is beyond arrogant, beyond ignorant and beyond stupid. Successful nations pay their public sectors well.
 
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I never said anywhere that I don't appreciate them. Anywhere.

Stop making stuff up.

I suggested the pay rise was too high considering the mess we are currently in, as a group, as a nation, together.

I'm not aware of one post where I have asked for people to take my posts serious. Can't think of one occasion.

Stop making stuff up.

Jabbo regularly calls people stupid names, I figured it was acceptable practice on here, and both you and I have got personal on here. If it offends you so much, I'll try harder not to do so.

What is my attitude to those who works for others? We all work for others, literally everyone. I can appreciate the work public sector workers do. I don't think you see it the other way. I think you believe all private sector folk get massive pay, massive rises, massive bonuses. This just isn't anywhere near true. Nowhere near.

I talk a lot of **** on here as it is funny. You tend to take everything I say at face value, it really shouldn't be that way, you take me away too seriously, I've mentioned this before, and I'm saying this with genuine intent, don't, as I'm not a very serious person.
 
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......loading...... said:
This is all very complicated so none of us would want to reduce it down to gotchas. Just need to repeat what I said about a government that can change its mind being the very best kind - and this is not a simple situation.

First of all, you obviously have no connection to the public sector. The public sector is about to break. People are leaving in their droves - good people with experience - and new people are not hanging around long either. Why would anyone take a real world pay cut 14 years in a row and accept that was going to continue. By defunding our services, the government has actively made them worse. Teaching standards are declining. Police are buried in red tape - and don't have the manpower to get out and work. Sickness is at a ridiculous rate - and I know that hides staff shortages in key areas. Nurses and doctors would have continued to strike and eventually go abroad.

Overseas aid is a national commitment. No government is going to drop it unless they want to be isolationists. That doesn't normally work well.

"Green things" are an opportunity to grow the economy. Any plan that involves creating work here and taking away our dependence on external powers is a good thing. We have a windy nation surrounded by water. After recent high winds some plank on BBC HYS wrote: "They turned off the turbines during these high winds! Shows you how pathetic green energy is." The fact is the green energy was so efficient it filled up all the power storage - and we desperately need to invest in that area. We will all be better off when that happens.

The University sector is struggling. A lot of unis are going to go bankrupt in the next few years if things don't change. Almost worse, the ones doing well are becoming focused on educating students from abroad for the higher fees. We have to fix it - and if people don't want to pay higher taxes it will have to be higher fees. I personally would pay more in my taxes - but anyone who doesn't want taxes to go up will have to accept higher fees.
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I get all of this, I really do. You all sense a but don't you.....

Public Sector. You are right in my situation, I don't have any affinity to the PS. I did work for a while for a private sector company that was contracting to a local council (IT Work), and all I could see in my situation was a gross inefficiency, bureaucracy and waste beyond comprehension. One example is the Council IT manager came to us to spec out the cost for a project, we said we will do so but you will never need what you are asking for. We costed the servers and infra in at 100k. He then purchased it all and we didn't use any of it. Why we asked. Well we may need funding for similar next year and we wont get it unless we asked and used it this year too. There was a rack of servers sitting there turned on with operating systems doing nothing for 18 months. I know this isn't everything, but it is my experience of the Public Sector.

Overseas aid - I agree we need to, but maybe not so much.

Green things - 100% agree with this. I am on Octopus Agile that changes the electricity price every 30 mins based on what it actually is based on demand and supply. Living on this windy, watery and sometimes sunny Island, often the price I pay for electricity is below 10p/Kwh, often below 5p and amazingly regularly negative so I get paid for using it. Don't get me wrong between 4pm and 7pm (peak times) it is always above the variable rate, but by load shifting I pay on average around 13p/Kwh...the variable rate is 35p and most 12m fixed around 25p. Why mention this? Well is is all about production and supply and demand. We are able to produce too much green energy, so it is cheaper to give it away to customers than it is to store it. We need to address that.

Universities. I have long thought that this started with the what I call 'degrees for degrees sake'. All these BS degrees that wont get you anywhere in life. What happened to apprenticeships and working your way up? My experience of University grads is that a lot of them think they have a degree and they have a right to a high paid job. In my line of work a degree shows you an aptitude, but cant replace 20 or so years experience. We need to change the narrative that you stay in education until you are in your 20s. I am not saying don't educate, but a lot of people are better off learning on the job as apprentices and gaining industry qualifications through there. Personally I would have ended up doing exactly what I do now, but been earning (and contributing to the economy) quicker if I hadn't pissed around with Uni. Don't get me wrong, some jobs you have to do this (doctors etc), but lets cut out the University degrees in 'surfing' (as in sea surfing) Hand Embroidery and such like. It is 2-3 years of wasting time, money and doesnt do anything for the future. I think a stronger education up to age 18 is more important.
 
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Thank you for engaging like a grown up.


Public Sector. You are right in my situation, I don't have any affinity to the PS. I did work for a while for a private sector company that was contracting to a local council (IT Work), and all I could see in my situation was a gross inefficiency, bureaucracy and waste beyond comprehension. One example is the Council IT manager came to us to spec out the cost for a project, we said we will do so but you will never need what you are asking for. We costed the servers and infra in at 100k. He then purchased it all and we didn't use any of it. Why we asked. Well we may need funding for similar next year and we wont get it unless we asked and used it this year too. There was a rack of servers sitting there turned on with operating systems doing nothing for 18 months. I know this isn't everything, but it is my experience of the Public Sector.

I don't disagree. But the waste at management level doesn't justify the freeze on wages for the people doing the work. The rises are not general rises in PS expenditure but specifically money put into the wage pot. The way I see it, we employ the public sector. How much have private workers and contractors put up their rates in the last 14 years? Compare this to PS wages. How are they supposed to afford to live?

That doesn't mean you can't make improvements to efficiency. I am all for removing middle management!

Overseas aid - I agree we need to, but maybe not so much.

Again, fine margins. I don't know what the intention is behind it. I know it does not just exist for the benefit of foreigners. I am sure this is nothing to do with being hippy lefties (Tories also kept pouring huge sums into this pot!), but we need someone to come explain it to us.

Green things - 100% agree with this. I am on Octopus Agile that changes the electricity price every 30 mins based on what it actually is based on demand and supply. Living on this windy, watery and sometimes sunny Island, often the price I pay for electricity is below 10p/Kwh, often below 5p and amazingly regularly negative so I get paid for using it. Don't get me wrong between 4pm and 7pm (peak times) it is always above the variable rate, but by load shifting I pay on average around 13p/Kwh...the variable rate is 35p and most 12m fixed around 25p. Why mention this? Well is is all about production and supply and demand. We are able to produce too much green energy, so it is cheaper to give it away to customers than it is to store it. We need to address that.

This is great and how I would like to see the future of power. Totally agree the future is in better storage - but I would also like to see British people keep getting cheap / free power rather than send it abroad.

Universities. I have long thought that this started with the what I call 'degrees for degrees sake'. All these BS degrees that wont get you anywhere in life. What happened to apprenticeships and working your way up? My experience of University grads is that a lot of them think they have a degree and they have a right to a high paid job. In my line of work a degree shows you an aptitude, but cant replace 20 or so years experience. We need to change the narrative that you stay in education until you are in your 20s. I am not saying don't educate, but a lot of people are better off learning on the job as apprentices and gaining industry qualifications through there. Personally I would have ended up doing exactly what I do now, but been earning (and contributing to the economy) quicker if I hadn't pissed around with Uni. Don't get me wrong, some jobs you have to do this (doctors etc), but lets cut out the University degrees in 'surfing' (as in sea surfing) Hand Embroidery and such like. It is 2-3 years of wasting time, money and doesnt do anything for the future. I think a stronger education up to age 18 is more important.

It might surprise you that I agree with this too. I want everyone to have access to a good quality education, state supplied, irrespective of your background, but sending everyone to Uni isn't a great idea. I actually think Uni would be better for people in their late 20s than straight after college. Go experience life first and see if you really need it. Totally agree with everything you said.
 
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I think the main issue with the apprenticeships are that usually the amount of investment from a company has to put in is huge and we have had massive variations in the quality of investment.

I think university gives life skills so I think short uni degrees where people learn to become adults living on their own which is important. A year or two would be sufficient.
 
thereisonlyoneno7 said:
I am a fairly right of centre person and I am still taking the suck it and see approach to the budget and other Labour policies for the next few months. As someone who actually pays more than the national average wage in tax each year, more rises do actually hurt me, but I am willing to give it a year or so to see if the short term pain will give me long term gain.

Looking at it rationally, I cannot see any other way really of trying to get the public services back on track and reducing debt. We could try spend our way out of it, but things are different this time - we have never come off the back of a global pandemic, a Ukraine war, and a good few years of financial chaos.

It does go against every rational feeling I have though, but maybe a different approach may work this time.

I believe that a party should be worried if they are popular in the first year or so of a new term as it means they aren't making the choices to try to fix any issues. It is where they are in 2-3 years that really says a lot more about them.
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It won’t work. The real “black hole” is 2.7trillion and has been built up over decades. Not the 22bn or 9bn or whatever labour are lying about.
All of their buzz words are lies. This budget is designed to look smart politically but it shows complete incompetence economically.

Higher taxes will raise prices and slow growth.

it’s the exact opposite of what we need. We need to be incentivising businesses and entrepreneurs if we want to grow the economy. Not taxing them and destroying the country even further.
There are opportunities which Brexit created which haven’t been seized. We could be becoming a global leader in finance, tech, nuclear energy etc.

We are heading towards a country where vast swathes of the population don’t work and sponge off the few who do. It’s unsustainable.

The part that makes me angry is that labour didn’t mention any of this in their manifesto. Even if I take them at their word and there is a magic black hole. Then they still lied. When the Tories lied, loading nearly had a heart attack. Now he defends the indefensible.

The unbelievable hypocrisy makes me laugh.
 
Osvaldorama said:
It won’t work. The real “black hole” is 2.7trillion and has been built up over decades. Not the 22bn or 9bn or whatever labour are lying about.
All of their buzz words are lies. This budget is designed to look smart politically but it shows complete incompetence economically.

Higher taxes will raise prices and slow growth.

it’s the exact opposite of what we need. We need to be incentivising businesses and entrepreneurs if we want to grow the economy. Not taxing them and destroying the country even further.
There are opportunities which Brexit created which haven’t been seized. We could be becoming a global leader in finance, tech, nuclear energy etc.

We are heading towards a country where vast swathes of the population don’t work and sponge off the few who do. It’s unsustainable.

The part that makes me angry is that labour didn’t mention any of this in their manifesto. Even if I take them at their word and there is a magic black hole. Then they still lied. When the Tories lied, loading nearly had a heart attack. Now he defends the indefensible.

The unbelievable hypocrisy makes me laugh.
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We have more millionaires and billionaires than ever. I don’t feel any richer! Where are you getting this sponging rhetoric from?

It is a lie. Unemployment is very very low! Around 4%. In 1993 (the last time the Tory party had been in 14 years) it was over 10%.

I am beginning to think maybe your assertions are just parroting lies and you don’t check anything yourself…
 
......loading...... said:
We have more millionaires and billionaires than ever. I don’t feel any richer! Where are you getting this sponging rhetoric from?

It is a lie. Unemployment is very very low! Around 4%. In 1993 (the last time the Tory party had been in 14 years) it was over 10%.

I am beginning to think maybe your assertions are just parroting lies and you don’t check anything yourself…
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This one post alone shows you don’t understand economics in the slightest.

We have more millionaires and billionaires than ever because of inflation. The currency is worth less, so naturally there are more millionaires.

Also explains why you feel poorer, as your money has been debased.

If you look at share of GDP per capita then Britons are getting poorer at an alarming rate compared with the rest of the world.

This is because we have taxed everyone to death and scared off all of the industry.
 
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Can’t trust a word the liebour party say. They’re actually putting tuition fees up.

The effective tax rate on student loans is absolutely horrendous for those that do well after uni. Both the Tories and labour need to do something about that imo. Yet another drag on the country
 
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