Off Topic Politics Thread

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People have a very odd notion of the BBC on here (and generally). Without going into the nuts and bolts regarding how BBC News is effectively a different business to the BBC main, with different reporting structures etc etc., the sole reason that Farage has had more air-time than you would perhaps expect for someone of his standing, is that he brings eyes to the programme. It's no more or less than that, and it's certainly not because there's a skewed leaning toward him or his politics.

He's a showman. He brings attention. He brings viewing figure up (be they supporters or people rage watching). It's really nothing more than that.
 
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ImpSaint said:
Again. The left has been attacking Musk since he took over twitter hinting at censorship and other stuff. this has been going on a long time. It isn't a response to Musk's tweets the other day.

I would suggest that considering the amount of **** directed at him since he took over twitter he has a pretty thick skin or he would be ready to have a heart attack from fury by now.

Whether he shows ignorance I think we can probably agree on that but then UK folk are pretty quick to volte-face within seconds giving commentary on US matters. "What does he know about the UK. He should keep his mouth shut" said the commentariat from the UK that just published a series of rants about the state of the US!
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Who are the “commentariat” you are referring to here? The politicians who criticised Musk’s comments when asked about them published rants about the state of the US? Where ? Did Kier Starmer rant about the US?

And again - I’m always baffled at the people who wake up in the morning and choose to take the side of the billionaire egomaniac who owns the largest social media company in the world. Why ? It’s a bizarre form of deference that I guess is very old world. It’s why we still
have people who trot along and vote for the posh well spoken aristocratic Tory who has spent more than 10 years making their lives worse and personally enriching themselves because they hear their voice and or look at their wealth and assume they must know better.
 
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Le Tissier's Laces said:
People have a very odd notion of the BBC on here (and generally). Without going into the nuts and bolts regarding how BBC News is effectively a different business to the BBC main, with different reporting structures etc etc., the sole reason that Farage has had more air-time than you would perhaps expect for someone of his standing, is that he brings eyes to the programme. It's no more or less than that, and it's certainly not because there's a skewed leaning toward him or his politics.

He's a showman. He brings attention. He brings viewing figure up (be they supporters or people rage watching). It's really nothing more than that.
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Well it needs to stop. Like it or not his “just asking questions” thing played a part in these riots. I’m not going as far as to say he was to blame but he didn’t help. And he knows it as well because he started to get very shifty and uncomfortable well finally grilled about it. The swagger in his voice started to crack. And then he threw Tommy Ten Names under the bus to try and save his own skin and has upset some of his supporters

Gosh I listened to Tommy’s screaming rant the other day - and there are people out there claiming he hasn’t incited anything and was just asking for peaceful protest. They must have not heard it and only read things (I haven’t read what he has written but saw a video of him shouting very aggressively)
 
......loading...... said:
Too much mental gymnastics here.

Musk started this with wild claims of civil war. Apparently Labour are awful because of their rhetoric but Musk saying civil war is fine and dandy. He needs to butt out of our politics - and it is quite shocking that anyone with a traditional values, conservative mindset wouldn’t be downright appalled at him.

Unless they were will to do mental and moral gymnastics to make it fit their narrative, of course.
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Musk didn't start it with that/those posts. Those are posts this week and in a long line of back and forth. He might have an ego but he isn't as prolific as Trump who lets loose on the whole world without needing prompting to do so. This has been a back and forth between the world's "left" and Musk since he took over twitter because they think only views that they approve of should be allowed on his platform.

He probs should butt out of our politics but then maybe our politicians and media lot should leave twitter if they don't like the heat? they were more than happy with twitter when it worked for them. They don't like it up 'em.

And yeah that can go for most big mouths on the internet (except for me) maybe they should all butt out of each other's politics........shouldn't have 2 tier rules on commentating :D. Should we butt out of talking about Russian, Chinese, Indian, ROW world politics? Or is it just some people that should butt out but Clinton, Obama (the good guys) should be able to comment?
 
ImpSaint said:
Musk didn't start it with that/those posts. Those are posts this week and in a long line of back and forth. He might have an ego but he isn't as prolific as Trump who lets loose on the whole world without needing prompting to do so. This has been a back and forth between the world's "left" and Musk since he took over twitter because they think only views that they approve of should be allowed on his platform.

He probs should butt out of our politics but then maybe our politicians and media lot should leave twitter if they don't like the heat? they were more than happy with twitter when it worked for them. They don't like it up 'em.

And yeah that can go for most big mouths on the internet (except for me) maybe they should all butt out of each other's politics........shouldn't have 2 tier rules on commentating :D. Should we butt out of talking about Russian, Chinese, Indian, ROW world politics? Or is it just some people that should butt out but Clinton, Obama (the good guys) should be able to comment?
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Except Musk owns the platform and controls the voice. Poor old Musky being picked on by the left!

He has retweeted numerous lies without fact-checking and then slyly removed them later. He constantly harps on about his racist narrative of the UK. Has he ever been?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/17/business/elon-musk-reveals-his-actual-truth

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna163985

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk-twitter-zuckerberg-lies-1234808808/


And there it looked like he has some horrendous views he wants to force on to everyone - for example by suing people who don’t like his views and stopped advertising on twitter.

The BBC summed him up quite well: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5gd1jzkeo.amp

There is a big difference between trying to fix the issues in society and pouring fuel onto a fire. The man is a major ****.
 
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Gregm1988 said:
This reads like the reply of someone who as well as not listening to political radio (fair enough if you prefer music but it’s tricky to comment on O’Brien without listening) but also has never regularly watched Question Time, read political new papers or watched bbc political shows / Laura K. Which I know can’t be the case so what is more likely is that you have a very different (and incorrect in my opinion) idea of what left and right wing is on the spectrum. Highlighted by calling Lib Dem’s left wing when the most definitely aren’t

So it makes more sense in this context

But QT is pretty much never a left/right 4:1 stitch up against the right unless your definition of the right aligns with no definition of the right that most people accept and agree with (which certainly seems to be the case). Especially not when the hosts have always been at least small “c” conservative. For example the last two had : 2 conservatives, 1 Labour and 1 Green and 1 Labour, 1 Lib Dem, 1 Conservative, 1 Reform and Andrew Marr (a conservative). So both equal or majority conservative and chaired by a conservative sympathising host.

When left leaning person is made political editor of the bbc and someone like that also hosts question time and the minority rather of the quests are right wing rather than always at least 50% and always shouted down by him whilst the others given time to talk then maybe we can talk about the broadcasting skewing to the left wing. But until then - don’t make me laugh

The mistake right wingers have made for years is how the political comedy always skewed left wing on things like Have I Got News and Mock the Week. Because most right wing comedians aren’t really that funny due to the nature of how comedy (especially politics comedy) is targeted. I should know - Reddit keeps pushing me “Babylon Bee” a US right wing political satire. When they are mocking some of the weirdest “woke” people parts are funny. But a lot of its other satire attempts just aren’t funny.

But just because the political comedy always skewed left it doesn’t mean the broadcasting skewed left. It’s always been the other way. You just need to look at the allegiance of the political editors - notably Marr and then Laura K

But if there is a fundamental disagreement on what makes up left and right then this will largely fall on deaf ears
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I used to watch QT regularly as people who have been her a while know. I stopped watching it soon after Dimblebob left and Bruce took over as it turned into purely the Harry Enfield sketch with terrible planted (both sides) audiences of activists and Fiona Bruce doing more talking than the guests. You don't need to listen to James O brien every day to assess James O Brien. I have heard him a fair number of times. A guy here at work actually does listen to that channel just so he can laugh at James O Brien.

Political newspapers? meaning what newspapers? Or you mean normal newspapers? I don't read the New statesman if thats what you mean but I did used to read online the Spectator mainly because I liked arguing with the hardline right folks in the comments section but no way I'm paying for that priviledge because most of their articles are posh folk moaning about the poor getting too much money. I watch a lot of BBC and hence I have seen LauraK go from ambitious correspondent to political editor to her own Sunday show over the decades. Its all about Laura.

Lib Dems not left. Hmmm OK. lolz.

QT is always 3:2 at best to what most people call the right. namely Tories and AN other. During Brexit it was 4:1 in favour of remain most weeks and 3:2 some weeks. Your assessment is very strange. Andrew Marr is a Labour supporter. Probably less left than his very leftist younger views and is currently the political editor of the New Statesman! He admits he has moved more to the centre and is quite probably aligned now with the Blairites rather than his younger more left than Corbynite tendencencies!

Comedy has gone very far left. I really used to enjoy comedy on the BBC, Have I got news for you was a fav. Never got Mock the Week but then it has Frankie Boyle who just swears for laughs and I don't fin it that funny tbh. Its just swearing. He can go in the bin with Chubby Brown who is equally unfunny. I have no idea on babylon bee. I never found much US comedy that funny. Right wing comedians can be funny just as left wing comedians can be if their whole act is not based around "Trump, Boris eh. sigh" Worst of the lot is Nish Kumar who is just not funny at all but I do like Russell Kane. I find him very funny even though a lot of his act is making fun of stereotype right wink knuckleheads and hick Americans. And I used to enjoy Spitting Image before offending people that aren't right wing became a crime and satire about Islamists became a little bit too scary for them to continue. But while it lasted it was pretty fairly spread. Everybody got ridiculed on Spitting Image no matter their leaning..

I think you do need to actually look at LauraK through the years. Most of her gig is her showboating her own importance. She's a smug f***** that is nowhere near the skill level of political interviewer of Andrew Neill....who the Beeb would have got rid of years earlier if there was anyone else in this country atm that could skewer politicians of all alegiances without resorting to Laura.K giggles or Maitlis sneering. But then he became his own cult of himself too. Maybe its something about being political editor of the Beeb that makes these people forget they are supposed to be interviewing people not giving us their own opinions?
 
......loading...... said:
Except Musk owns the platform and controls the voice. Poor old Musky being picked on by the left!

He has retweeted numerous lies without fact-checking and then slyly removed them later. He constantly harps on about his racist narrative of the UK. Has he ever been?

https://amp.cnn.com/cnn/2023/11/17/business/elon-musk-reveals-his-actual-truth

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna163985

https://www.rollingstone.com/culture/culture-lists/elon-musk-twitter-zuckerberg-lies-1234808808/


And there it looked like he has some horrendous views he wants to force on to everyone - for example by suing people who don’t like his views and stopped advertising on twitter.

The BBC summed him up quite well: https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cze5gd1jzkeo.amp

There is a big difference between trying to fix the issues in society and pouring fuel onto a fire. The man is a major ****.
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I never said I liked the bloke. I just said he didn't start it with that civil war tweet. It has been going on a long time.

Groups telling other groups not to put advertising on a website and doing pile ons trying to shame those that do is cancel culture whether you like it or not.
 
ImpSaint said:
I never said I liked the bloke. I just said he didn't start it with that civil war tweet. It has been going on a long time.

Groups telling other groups not to put advertising on a website and doing pile ons trying to shame those that do is cancel culture whether you like it or not.
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People deciding not to advertise on a platform where the owner promotes the ‘science’ that black people are less intelligent and spreads lies, is not cancel culture.

Get a grip.
 
ImpSaint said:
I never said I liked the bloke. I just said he didn't start it with that civil war tweet. It has been going on a long time.

Groups telling other groups not to put advertising on a website and doing pile ons trying to shame those that do is cancel culture whether you like it or not.
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“Working class bloke from the north of England defends billionaire U.S. oligarch making inflammatory remarks about U.K.”

Mate, give your head a wobble
 
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Archers Road said:
“Working class bloke from the north of England defends billionaire U.S. oligarch making inflammatory remarks about U.K.”

Mate, give your head a wobble
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I just realised that he also said people who posted things on Twitter should be accountable for what they said on Twitter, but then said Elon Musk should not be accountable for what is said on Twitter as that is Cancel Culture. My brain hurts.
 
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......loading...... said:
I just realised that he also said people who posted things on Twitter should be accountable for what they said on Twitter, but then said Elon Musk should not be accountable for what is said on Twitter as that is Cancel Culture. My brain hurts.
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Masters and servants mentality mate. Very prevalent in parts of England. The rich and powerful must be there on merit, so we should doff our caps.
 
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......loading...... said:
I just think we need to be very careful of people like Musk. He is a megalomaniac whose values are not ours. People are saying that Musk has been ‘targetted’ by our politicians. That is crazy. He has made wild and inflammatory statements about the UK and they have been asked to respond.

Any decent Tory or Lib Dem would have said that his statements are not helpful, so I find it weird so many people from conservative backgrounds who aren’t appalled about an American thinking he can butt into our politics and insult our culture.
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This is a completely different way of looking at it and completely untrue tbh. It isn't so much politicians, more the whole machinery of those that say they are lefft wing and want to control everything that is said. Self prescribed left wingers across the internet have been on the attack on Musk ever since he took over twitter and said it should be free for all views and not just those that are approved by a certain clique of the world's populace. Left wing politicians, here, in the US and in EU, have increasingly been looking at the idea of censorship which then becomes a problem because who decides what is allowed and not?

I think most "decent" politicians left and right would say it is not helpful and I would agree but then there is a vast amount of people on the web with their own audiences that say a lot of unhelpful things. And yes I think American's should butt out of our politics but then the remain campers were all over Obama when he chipped in on the Brexit debate!

I pretty much agree with you on your statement above. But there is an overwhelming sphere on the internet and across other medias that seem to jump on things like this from Musk but ignore things said when it is on their side of the argument. And yes in many cases that is a 2 way thing. Both sides seem to ignore stuff that is in line with their beliefs and jump on stuff that is not. The point though is that the "righties" in the UK are not the ones talking about censorship which is a very China-like slippery slope of controlling the narrative.

But then looking across the pond there are republicans constantly attacking social media as well. Seems that Social media in the US is something both sides are attacking facebook, twitter and the others mainly because it seems the US tendency (same with Crypto) is to demand control of everything....for the world's sake!
 
Gregm1988 said:
Who are the “commentariat” you are referring to here? The politicians who criticised Musk’s comments when asked about them published rants about the state of the US? Where ? Did Kier Starmer rant about the US?

And again - I’m always baffled at the people who wake up in the morning and choose to take the side of the billionaire egomaniac who owns the largest social media company in the world. Why ? It’s a bizarre form of deference that I guess is very old world. It’s why we still
have people who trot along and vote for the posh well spoken aristocratic Tory who has spent more than 10 years making their lives worse and personally enriching themselves because they hear their voice and or look at their wealth and assume they must know better.
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?? Do you really not know who the commentariat are? Politicians are politicians. Commentariat are the people who either make a living about commentating on anything to do with politics or want to make a name for themselves in political spheres. Not just average Joe's making comments. they pretty much are activists whether they are on social media, MSM screen media or article writers/journalists. In many cases they are on all platforms. Some higher profile than others and they tend to be the ones that get the paid gigs like guests on news segments or panel shows like QT. they have no actual power other than their audience and their influence. they tend to be very one sided and can be very defensive of their own position while being rabid dogs about anything they oppose.

High profile lefties would be people like Polly Toynbee, Ayesha Hazareka, Eddie Izzard or Owen Jones or now he's out of power Alistair Campbell while on the right you have people like Mark Littlewood, Sebastien Payne and Kate Andrews. People that are very vocal about political stuff and are most of the time a hairs breadth away from being paid shills or trying to get there.

Ayesha Hazareka for example went from being a being a press officer at the DTI in the Blair years in the last few years of the Blair government alongside being a Comedian, seemingly since Blair always being introduced as a Comedian until the past decade when it was pretty obvious she was not a neutral talking head she was the second Labour rep on a panel! and earlier this year Sir Kier made her Baroness Hazarika of Coatbridge in the County of Lanarkshire. That is on top of the MBE she got a decade ago for "political service" and was still on panels shows like Politics Live and QT when Labour already had a politician on ther but hey ho. She's the neutral non politician honest!

So commentariat are people with a high level of influence beit policy advisors that like to give things to the press/media to publish or have their own large audience to preach to. They aren't talking about politics per se. they are actively prompting their own side under the guise of being an even hand althugh many don't even try to hide it. Lower profiles and level of influence are the sort of guests you get most of the time on Jeremy Vine although every now and again big hitters like Owen Jones are on there. Commentariat do tend to be very prolific on high profile social media where they keep chipping away for as big an audience as they can reach.
 
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