Off Topic Politics Thread

[Osvaldorama]

Two brilliant posts

Trust me Greg, ignore is such a good thing. Makes the thread a bit weird, but your overall happiness for the day is better. It is not ignoring 'WHAT IS REALLY HAPPENING, WAKE UP YOU LEFTIES!!!!" (in caps as I imagine this is how certain people reading this thread will say it), it is just if I wanted to listen to all this bullshit, I would read the Daily Mail and follow Tate & Robinson on social media. I don't. I come here for 90% Saints debate and maybe 10% off topic. Not 10% off topic with such utter garbage and yes, outright racism hidden behind the 'I'm not a racist, but this has to stop. How dare non whites come into the country and earn a living'

Get over it, the country isn't a white elite. Colour of your skin makes not one bit of difference to morals and the way you act. Yes, I can find examples of hideous brown people, but I can find the same amount of hideous white people. Some people are just bad. It is not about 'taking our country back' or 'protecting our kids'.

It is about finding a scapegoat that is easily identifiable. The Nazis did it in the 1930s. They used the narrative to pick on a prosperous group of people that looked and acted different, so were easily identifiable.

Resorting to calling people far right Nazis.. classic.

Questioning a HUGE population explosion and pathetically weak border policies is not a Nazi view point.

Calling out that Nazi salutes that were seen in Pro-Hamas marches and ignored by the media is not a Nazi position.

Asking why more is not being done to prevent little girls being stabbed in their dance classes is not a Nazi position

Showing that asylum seekers crimes are continually covered up due to fear of reprisals is not a Nazi position.

Its exactly this mindset that led to 1400 girls being raped in Rotherham.

When the black community stood up and said that the policing was unfair, people listened. Yet now the working class are saying the same thing and they are being demonised.

Everyone is allowed a voice in this country except the working class.

 

[StJabbo1]

Reports from GB news and other dubious sources that Hope not Hate perpetrated to 100 riots can be discounted:-
Nick Lowles Hope Not Hate: “Yes, the list was a hoax, but just look at the front pages of today’s papers. An anti-racist message is being transmitted to millions of homes this morning”
He follows this up with:
"Just to clarify, by hoax I’m meaning that the bloke simply compiled a list and hoped people would turn up, rather than being arranged by local people"
It wasn’t him or HNH that created the hoax.
Extracted from twaXter and reddit.com/r/ukpolitics posts.
Right on from the right wing arsewipe rags. (Testosterone promotion alert)

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[Archers Road]

Right on from the right wing arsewipe rags. (Testosterone promotion alert)

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The lack of self awareness from the editors of these two rags is breathtaking. Their relentless Stop The Boats headlines have been stirring up hate and fear for years. But well done to them for acknowledging good when they see it.

 

[ImpSaint]

Lol. Labour taking on Musk might backfire a little
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1821796830608253387

 

[ImpSaint]

Assuming you mean Yvette Cooper it is important to note that she has had basically no say of influence for anything other than the last month of the last 14 years. She’s stood up and said various things when required as opposite to the Home Secretary. But she hasn’t been able to do or say anything.

I obviously agree with the point on anyone using the salute. I’m baffled by both but speaking on what I know more closely I don’t understand why anyone white British person who proclaimed a strong attachment to our island history would even use the salute of the foe we played a key part in vanquishing in arguably our greatest ever national triumph. My only possible guess (although I’m certain it doesn’t go this deep) is that fighting in that war was the death of our empire and position on the world stage.

But now seems like a time to bring up something I was wondering based on you going in hard over Cooper rather than any of the actual Home Secretaries who have also ignored the majority of the public will (which they have) - why is it that it seems like you have only started posting on this thread with a gusto since the Labour victory? And pretty much primarily to stick the boot into them and state the “all politicians are the same” lines.

Unless it’s a profile name change.

Because most of the things you are complaining at are very much the fault of the previous government who had 14 years to do something about them. But I don’t really recognise your profile as one who has posted much about that over the last few years and I don’t think in the build up to the election either. I’d like to think I might have clocked it as you are one of the few with views that are more what most would consider “on the right”. But at least expressed with some degree of nuance and an indication that they are your own and not parroted from social media.

It’s just that there is a sudden massive flurry of posts mostly going in two footed on a new government that was elected last month and is getting its feet under the table. It’s intriguing but I appreciate I have no right to an answer or indeed to question how anyone posts.

There was almost a point where I wondered if there was an alternative account situation going on but quickly dismissed it

It’s almost as if these riots were planned in the event of a Labour victory to give people and excuse to harshly criticise them for both how they handle them (more valid) and for “not listening to the people” and helping create the conditions for them to start (complete invalid)

Between circa 2017 and now I've sort of got bored with politics, especially as the Tories were so bad in power and also with the modern soundbite focused politking that is nowadays seemingly more important than actual policies.

But I guess it just got a bit more interesting in the run up to this election as the left in particular has gone into overdrive in their arguments against culture wars.......while participating in culture wars more than their lame duck and now out of power opponents.

I've not liked Yvette Balls for a long time. Last 14 years doesn't matter. She was one of the original "Blair Babes" and switches argument with the wind when she was in power and when she was in opposition.

As for the "only just come to power" they have been saying stuff for those 14 years and now they are in power it is hilarious to see them backtracking what they said or flip flopping between things.

The riots are nothing to do with Labour coming to power. The striking strategies and timing may well have been but the riots are just a culmination of what people on both sides have been saying or not saying over the past years and it seems the far right have opportunistically jumped on a single event in a period of hyped up hyperbole (the Palestine marches to now) to engage their couple of buses worth of idiots in some activity.

And of course this always happens anyway. People pay less attention to things when they are the opposition. In the run up to the election and after the left wing commentariat of course started to ramp things up, gloat about the situation (political) and say things that then get people with longer memories thinking "hang on, how can that politician say that when.......ta-da. found it, they said the opposite x time ago.

 

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Lol. Labour taking on Musk might backfire a little
https://x.com/elonmusk/status/1821796830608253387

But also kind of pathetic. Elon Musk is a loser who makes everything personal.

I don’t understand MPs who haven’t gone back through their entire social media catalogue and removed all the **** they said before anyone cared.

 

[ImpSaint]

My bad. Mark Rowley


https://news.sky.com/story/amp/met-...nights-successful-policing-operation-13192996

Hmmm. Police chief says criticism of police is incorrect? In other news Ex PM says criticism of former government is inaccurate and Elon Musk says criticism of Musk is incorrect as he is a lovely fella.

 

[ImpSaint]

Gaslighting prick

“there was some minor trouble which was anti social behaviour”

Reality: Croydon was smashed up , police officers injured

If that exact same event in Croydon was people with St George’s or Union flags it would be front page news saying “EDL thugs destroy London”

this is pretty normal. Has been going on for years. past examples 15 arrested at EDL march.....doesn't mention the 15 were anti-racists and not EDL people. Headline creates the image they want.

 

[ImpSaint]

In case anyone on here is not aware - the sentencing guidelines for crimes is different depending on the crime. Being involved in riots is up to 10 years (and many are clamouring for the harsher end that are not being handed out). So some of these people are potentially getting off leniently

Someone being sentenced to less time for a completely different crime that has nothing to do with rioting is NOT evidence of a “two tier justice system” for anything other that how sentences are handed out and for what crime.

Now people can raise separate concerns as to whether the sentences for common assault should be higher to align with the sentences for riots or whether the sentencing for being at riots should be lower and brought down to align with common assault. That is fine

What you (or the royal “you” if the information has been lifted from elsewhere - which I expect it has) can’t do is trawl through the internet and look for two very different crimes and fine one where a white person was given more prison time and one where a brown person was given less (despite being different crimes - i really must stress this point again for the hard of thinking out there) and then howl about two tier policing. I’m going to call that what it is - is racist. It’s just racist. Because it’s notable who was picked as an example on the more lenient side when there are likely hundreds of stories of other people of all races given lenient sentences for a whole variety of crimes. It’s just racism. And a specific kind. If wild an unequal comparisons are going to be used then why not pick the horrible case of the man who stabbed people including some students in (I think Nottingham) and was given a pathetic sentence I think due to citing mental health? Because he wasn’t the right skin tone to fit this racist narrative being peddled right now over two tier policing (pretty sure he was black but the targets at the moment are specifically Muslims - due to very specific racism)

For clarification - I am saying that some of the things being said and posted are most definitely racist. Not that anyone posting them are.

This two tier policing ignores how much higher stop and search rates are in certain parts of the country for non white people. I expect a lot of it stems from the appalling grooming gang incidents where local police were seen as too scared to be accused of racist for investigating. But right now the “two tier” thing has been dialled down to differences in sentencing it seems - which to me is different to “not properly investigating accusations”. It’s about once people have actually been caught doing something with evidence and arrested.

The suggestions of 2 tier policing were fully in action way before the riots. Rioters should get what comes to them but if someone is gonna have the police knocking on their door for holding an offensive right wing banner and shouting racist things then the same punishment should be metered out to someone holding an offensive left wing banner and shouting racist things. The latter wasn't happening and brushed off or completely ignored even when pointed out on those Palestine Marches.

 

[Gregm1988]

Between circa 2017 and now I've sort of got bored with politics, especially as the Tories were so bad in power and also with the modern soundbite focused politking that is nowadays seemingly more important than actual policies.

But I guess it just got a bit more interesting in the run up to this election as the left in particular has gone into overdrive in their arguments against culture wars.......while participating in culture wars more than their lame duck and now out of power opponents.

I've not liked Yvette Balls for a long time. Last 14 years doesn't matter. She was one of the original "Blair Babes" and switches argument with the wind when she was in power and when she was in opposition.

As for the "only just come to power" they have been saying stuff for those 14 years and now they are in power it is hilarious to see them backtracking what they said or flip flopping between things.

The riots are nothing to do with Labour coming to power. The striking strategies and timing may well have been but the riots are just a culmination of what people on both sides have been saying or not saying over the past years and it seems the far right have opportunistically jumped on a single event in a period of hyped up hyperbole (the Palestine marches to now) to engage their couple of buses worth of idiots in some activity.

And of course this always happens anyway. People pay less attention to things when they are the opposition. In the run up to the election and after the left wing commentariat of course started to ramp things up, gloat about the situation (political) and say things that then get people with longer memories thinking "hang on, how can that politician say that when.......ta-da. found it, they said the opposite x time ago.

Interesting comment on the left wing commentariat because you have acknowledged the existence of Jones and Sarkar so should know that the actual left wing commentators are often the ones most critical of Labour. Often unreasonably so. I even heard a guy this morning claiming James O’Brien wasn’t left wing because he wasn’t all-in on trans rights and sends his kids to private school. That’s a pretty mad perspective

The right do it as well. The Lotus Eaters crowed tried to claim that the last Tory government / cabinet was the most left wing ever (yes - ever. Including previous Labour ones).

Can be amusing to see the views of the extremes

 

[Gregm1988]

But also kind of pathetic. Elon Musk is a loser who makes everything personal.

I don’t understand MPs who haven’t gone back through their entire social media catalogue and removed all the **** they said before anyone cared.

I will never understand how someone that rich, famous and successful can be so monstrously insecure. If I had a tiny fraction of his wealth and success I expect I’d be on top of the world. It is really confusing

 

[ImpSaint]

But also kind of pathetic. Elon Musk is a loser who makes everything personal.

I don’t understand MPs who haven’t gone back through their entire social media catalogue and removed all the **** they said before anyone cared.

A lot of them do.......but places like Guido and their left wing equivalents must have databases that scrape the info because they can always bring up old deleted posts. Best thing to do is not write it in the first place. Once you press that button. Its there or somewhere else forever. Just as Naz Shah found out when she stood up in parliament gobbing off about something only to find the next day loads of deleted likes, retweets and shares on nasty anti Israel posts re-surfaced. And that was well before Musk got his hands on Twitter. Years ago. Someone somewhere has a record of everything deleted or not!

And I think the left have been pretty personal towards Musk anyway so its a 2 way childish thing.

 

[Archers Road]

Hmmm. Police chief says criticism of police is incorrect? In other news Ex PM says criticism of former government is inaccurate and Elon Musk says criticism of Musk is incorrect as he is a lovely fella.

“Police chief praises a show of unity from communities”, is the point you are deliberately missing.

Musk is a blight, a malicious narcissist with too much money and too much power, and a very strong argument for clipping the wings of the oligarchy.

 

[ImpSaint]

Interesting comment on the left wing commentariat because you have acknowledged the existence of Jones and Sarkar so should know that the actual left wing commentators are often the ones most critical of Labour. Often unreasonably so. I even heard a guy this morning claiming James O’Brien wasn’t left wing because he wasn’t all-in on trans rights and sends his kids to private school. That’s a pretty mad perspective

The right do it as well. The Lotus Eaters crowed tried to claim that the last Tory government / cabinet was the most left wing ever (yes - ever. Including previous Labour ones).

Can be amusing to see the views of the extremes

Yes I read the Labour on Labour stuff, just like there is Tory vs Tory stuff. But the media still book him for their talking heads slots and thus he has a more public voice than the majority so his flip flopping between sides is more hilarious as surely he knows people have longer than a day memories.

James O Brien is off his rocker. Shock Jock that just runs a show basically about himself. Look how I take on nasty folks and treat nice folks nicely. I get to decide which is which. One reason he lost his gig on the Newsnight (I watched his first episode when he was much more restrained) for being biased. can't recall him lasting that long but from day 1 you could tell he was someone trying to make world events all about him.

The last Tory government actually was more left wing than Blairs if you ignore the stuff they said when they knew they were not going to put it into action. Can;t really equate the economics side of it because they both spent more than they received and if the tables had been reversed with Tories in during those boom years and Blair in post the financial crisis, who knows!

You have to remember Blair spent 13 years running turbo Neo-liberal economic policies, even creating more monies for the rich by utilising PFI en masse to create "non state" private companies managing these public sector projects at over the market rate prices. They could have just borrowed the money and the state done this stuff at a much lower price but they chose not to. On the social side of things they were a lot more conservative than the post Cameron Tories!

And thus by the end of that lot Corbyn's left wing politics appeared to be bordering communism. lolz.

 

[ImpSaint]

“Police chief praises a show of unity from communities”, is the point you are deliberately missing.

Musk is a blight, a malicious narcissist with too much money and too much power, and a very strong argument for clipping the wings of the oligarchy.

I haven't missed that at all. original post that Mark Reilly pointer is in the context of evidence about 2 tier policing? That he praises communities is pretty much stating the obvious as it is always the populace that defeats fascism. the law can only contain this stuff sporadically. The public in real life are the ones that defeat it. Thats why the political class always wants to control narratives. They can only do their stuffs (good or bad) if they can control the narrative and it is why in recent years we have seen shy "tories/brexiteers" etc because the narrative has been driven to shame anyone not on message.

 

[ImpSaint]

But also kind of pathetic. Elon Musk is a loser who makes everything personal.

I don’t understand MPs who haven’t gone back through their entire social media catalogue and removed all the **** they said before anyone cared.

She sounds a lovely person:

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Meanwhile our new health secretary..........lolz.:

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Pretty sure the right wing will be furious about this, then. I know abuse of personal information and invasion of personal privacy are huge for the conservative block. Until they shift into the far right block, where they love it again.

Actually, as someone who is above party politics now, and someone who says he stands for values above left and right, Musk’s actions must infuriate you, Imp. I am glad you aren’t a hypocrite and your views are valued by me all the more for it.

 

[ImpSaint]

Pretty sure the right wing will be furious about this, then. I know abuse of personal information and invasion of personal privacy are huge for the conservative block. Until they shift into the far right block, where they love it again.

Actually, as someone who is above party politics now, and someone who says he stands for valued above left and right, Musk’s actions must infuriate you, Imp. I am glad you aren’t a hypocrite and your views are valued by me all the more for it.

Personal privacy? left and right say twitter is the "townsquare" when they are arguing about whether people should be allowed to say what they like, hence it is in the public domain. Once you publish something in the public domain privacy is gone. Not sure what you are trying to say here. This isn't some private Whatsapp groupchat. They broadcast those comments to the world! They can hardly complain if 1 of the million billion people in the world had a record of what they broadcast!

Nothing to do with Elon when she hadn't deleted her posts. And even if it was, once its on the internet its there forever...somewhere.

 

[Puck]

The last Tory government actually was more left wing than Blairs if you ignore the stuff they said when they knew they were not going to put it into action. Can;t really equate the economics side of it because they both spent more than they received and if the tables had been reversed with Tories in during those boom years and Blair in post the financial crisis, who knows!

You have to remember Blair spent 13 years running turbo Neo-liberal economic policies, even creating more monies for the rich by utilising PFI en masse to create "non state" private companies managing these public sector projects at over the market rate prices. They could have just borrowed the money and the state done this stuff at a much lower price but they chose not to. On the social side of things they were a lot more conservative than the post Cameron Tories!

And thus by the end of that lot Corbyn's left wing politics appeared to be bordering communism. lolz.

Indeed. As is common, people confuse the economic element of politics, where both major UK parties have been fairly soft left for years, with the social and cultural element where both major parties are radically progressive.

 

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Personal privacy? left and right say twitter is the "townsquare" when they are arguing about whether people should be allowed to say what they like, hence it is in the public domain. Once you publish something in the public domain privacy is gone. Not sure what you are trying to say here. This isn't some private Whatsapp groupchat. They broadcast those comments to the world! They can hardly complain if 1 of the million billion people in the world had a record of what they broadcast!

As long as you have never used the phrase cancel culture. We all should have a right to move on from and delete out mistakes from 15 years ago without them being undeleted and exploited by megalomaniacs.

I think you are stretching your moral compass as this is a Labour thing. What is your personal cancel culture clock then?